Actually, I’m worried he’s having some kind of breakdown. The Eternally Recurring Personal Identity Wars had plenty of arguers on both sides. JKC was there. Him now talking like he’s the only one who ever believed that deconstruction and reconstruction using “different atoms” preserves identity, may indicate that the Personal Identity Wars really literally did send him off the edge.
I have to say, this is a failure mode I’ve never encountered before:
“You won! It’s over! Look, we all agree with you!”
“NO! IT IS NOT OVER! I AM THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS SIDE AND I AM STILL LOSING, DAMMIT!”
Have you really never seen this before? I actually find that I myself struggle with it. When you define yourself as the plucky outsider it’s difficult and almost unsatisfying when you conclusively win the argument. It ruins your self-identity because you’re now just a mainstream thinker.
I’ve heard of similar stories when people are cured of various terminal diseases. The disease becomes so central to their definition of self that to be cured makes them feel slightly lost.
I haven’t seen it before. Maybe if you counted Stephen J. Gould, but I expect he was lying more than crazy.
I guess most of the people I know are, shall we say, secure enough in their identity as iconoclasts, that they can enjoy winning any particular argument without fear.
Hadn’t heard about the case of the terminal diseases, either.
Actually, I’m worried he’s having some kind of breakdown.
No you’re not, you’re not worried about that at all; you’re trying to be amusing, and doing a damn poor job of it too.
Him now talking like he’s the only one who ever believed
that deconstruction and reconstruction using “different
atoms” preserves identity, may indicate that the Personal
Identity Wars really literally did send him off the edge.
I am a man capable of getting into details, I like details and if truth be told I’m rather good at it, I think details are important; so name one person who agreed with me other than superficially? Come on, name one! Certainly not you, you believe in the childish friendly AI idea. And the only hope of salvaging that is some ugly mutation of the soul ides.
And Eliezer although I’ve said you were wrong and even (perhaps going too far) implied that you were stupid (you have faults but stupidity is not among them) I never in my life said that you were insane as you just said about me.
I am a man capable of getting into details, I like details and if truth be told I’m rather good at it, I think details are important; so name one person who agreed with me other than superficially?
What ramifications and consequences of the ‘atoms are not identity’ belief do you think the upvoters of Eliezer are not thinking about? How is their acceptance superficial?
Actually, I’m worried he’s having some kind of breakdown.
No you’re not, you’re not worried about that at all
Yes I am worried about that. I don’t remember exactly who was on what side in the Upload Wars, but you certainly weren’t the only one lined up for—not just destructive teleportation—but destructive uploading as a computer program.
Greg Egan thinks that if you die and get restored from a backup a day ago, you’re just losing a day’s memories. Even I’m not sure I’d go that far.
Derek Parfit (in the famous mainstream philosophical classic Reasons and Persons) goes farther than either of us by considering the case of incrementally removing and adding memories.
You’re not alone. You were part of a small army of transhumanist reductionist philosophers including a majority of the big names. You were quite well aware of that at the time. Your current stance of lone heroic defiance honestly seems to me to go over the edge of insanity.
I think he is implying that we think we agree when we dont really, in that case he would expect us to vote in agreement with you.
Actually, I’m worried he’s having some kind of breakdown. The Eternally Recurring Personal Identity Wars had plenty of arguers on both sides. JKC was there. Him now talking like he’s the only one who ever believed that deconstruction and reconstruction using “different atoms” preserves identity, may indicate that the Personal Identity Wars really literally did send him off the edge.
I have to say, this is a failure mode I’ve never encountered before:
“You won! It’s over! Look, we all agree with you!”
“NO! IT IS NOT OVER! I AM THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS SIDE AND I AM STILL LOSING, DAMMIT!”
Have you really never seen this before? I actually find that I myself struggle with it. When you define yourself as the plucky outsider it’s difficult and almost unsatisfying when you conclusively win the argument. It ruins your self-identity because you’re now just a mainstream thinker.
I’ve heard of similar stories when people are cured of various terminal diseases. The disease becomes so central to their definition of self that to be cured makes them feel slightly lost.
I haven’t seen it before. Maybe if you counted Stephen J. Gould, but I expect he was lying more than crazy.
I guess most of the people I know are, shall we say, secure enough in their identity as iconoclasts, that they can enjoy winning any particular argument without fear.
Hadn’t heard about the case of the terminal diseases, either.
No you’re not, you’re not worried about that at all; you’re trying to be amusing, and doing a damn poor job of it too.
I am a man capable of getting into details, I like details and if truth be told I’m rather good at it, I think details are important; so name one person who agreed with me other than superficially? Come on, name one! Certainly not you, you believe in the childish friendly AI idea. And the only hope of salvaging that is some ugly mutation of the soul ides.
And Eliezer although I’ve said you were wrong and even (perhaps going too far) implied that you were stupid (you have faults but stupidity is not among them) I never in my life said that you were insane as you just said about me.
What ramifications and consequences of the ‘atoms are not identity’ belief do you think the upvoters of Eliezer are not thinking about? How is their acceptance superficial?
Yes I am worried about that. I don’t remember exactly who was on what side in the Upload Wars, but you certainly weren’t the only one lined up for—not just destructive teleportation—but destructive uploading as a computer program.
Greg Egan thinks that if you die and get restored from a backup a day ago, you’re just losing a day’s memories. Even I’m not sure I’d go that far.
Derek Parfit (in the famous mainstream philosophical classic Reasons and Persons) goes farther than either of us by considering the case of incrementally removing and adding memories.
You’re not alone. You were part of a small army of transhumanist reductionist philosophers including a majority of the big names. You were quite well aware of that at the time. Your current stance of lone heroic defiance honestly seems to me to go over the edge of insanity.
John, If you have a unique, opinion, write it up somewhere! If you have a rare opinion, link to explanations from those rare individuals.