It’s interesting that you assume I’m talking about poorer countries. What about developed Asia? They have a strong medical research corp, and yet they are not home to companies that made covid-19 medication. Even in Europe, many countries are not host to relevant companies. You do realise that drug prices are much lower in the rest of the developed world compared to the US, right? I am not talking about ‘poorer countries’, I am talking about most of the developed world outside of the US, where there are more tightly regulated healthcare sectors, and where the government isn’t merely the tail trying to wag the proverbial dog.
Also, your evidence is not evidence of a worldwide conspiracy. Everything you’ve mentioned is essentially America-centric.
Plagiarism is generally considered an academic crime and yet plenty of researchers are willing to put their names on papers written by Big Pharma that they themselves did not write.
I’m starting to feel like you really don’t know much about how these things work. People put their names on papers they don’t write all the time. Authorship of a paper is an attribution of scientific work, but not necessarily words on paper. In many cases, even minor scientific contribution can mean authorship. This is why in physics author lists can stretch to the thousands. At any rate, improper authorship isn’t the same ‘academic crime’ as plagiarism at all. The problem isn’t plagiarism, it is non-disclosure (of industry links) and improper authorship. It’s also important to note that this is not some kind of unique insight. Even a quick Google search brings up myriad studies on the topic in medical journals, such as: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800869
Studies on ghostwriters in ‘establishment’ journals, by ‘establishment’ authors, recommending more scrutiny!
India and China can actually make credible threads that they just let their own companies break patents if Big Pharma doesn’t sell them drugs at prices they consider reasonable.
When it comes to reducing prices paid, if you look at the UK for example, they have politicians who care about the NHI budget being manageable. If drugs don’t provide enough benefits for the price they cost they don’t approve them, so there’s pressure to name reasonable prices.
It’s also important to note that this is not some kind of unique insight.
Yes, the fact that there’s a lot of conspiracy going on in Big Pharma is not an unique insight. That’s just business as usual for Big Pharma in a way that should be obvious to any observer that pays attention.
Ghost authorship isn’t just putting a name on a paper to which you little contributed but also about the real authors not appearing on the paper. Ghostwriters are people who wrote something and don’t appear on the author list.
If a student goes to upwork, lets someone write him an essay, does a few minor changes, and then turns it in under their own name while leaving out the real author of the paper that’s seen as plagiarism by every academic department out there.
India and China can actually make credible threads that they just let their own companies break patents if Big Pharma doesn’t sell them drugs at prices they consider reasonable.
When it comes to reducing prices paid, if you look at the UK for example, they have politicians who care about the NHI budget being manageable. If drugs don’t provide enough benefits for the price they cost they don’t approve them, so there’s pressure to name reasonable prices.
Sure, but that doesn’t address why you think researchers in these countries would be so affected by American pharma that there aren’t enough people to do convincing studies that would affect American bottom lines. In other words, still the same thing: why you think there is evidence of a worldwide conspiracy.
Ghost authorship isn’t just putting a name on a paper to which you little contributed but also about the real authors not appearing on the paper. Ghostwriters are people who wrote something and don’t appear on the author list.
If a student goes to upwork, lets someone write him an essay, does a few minor changes, and then turns it in under their own name while leaving out the real author of the paper that’s seen as plagiarism by every academic department out there.
I don’t think that’s right. I think it would be considered academic dishonesty but not plagiarism per se, because for students the expectation for graded work is that they are submitting their own work (or work with fellow students in the same class, for some classes and types of work). However, for papers, works are supposed to be collaborative, so just having additional contributors isn’t itself a problem. The problem instead is that all authors are listed and all authors contributed. In terms of industry research, disclosure of industry links is another problem.
I looked up a few articles on the subject, and it really doesn’t seem like ghostwriting is plagiarism (though it depends on the definition and who you ask!), but it certainly can violate ethical codes or journal guidelines:
I think this is my last post on this thread. I’ve made several arguments that were ignored, because you seem to be in favour of raising new points as opposed to addressing arguments. I don’t think it’s quite a Gish Gallop, but unfortunately I also don’t have unlimited time, and I think I’ve already made a strong case here. Readers can make their own decisions on whether to update their beliefs, and feel free to get a last word in.
I looked up a few articles on the subject, and it really doesn’t seem like ghostwriting is plagiarism (though it depends on the definition and who you ask!), but it certainly can violate ethical codes or journal guidelines:
Whether or not you use the word plagiarism, it’s an ethical violation where people are paid money to do something in secret to further the interest of pharma companies.
What’s what conspiring in private to mislead the public is about. The ghostwriting case is one that’s well-documented. It’s evidence that a lot of conspiracy exists in the field.
I’ve made several arguments that were ignored, because you seem to be in favour of raising new points as opposed to addressing arguments.
Your argument is basically “if they have power to do X, why don’t they also have power to do Y”. The only way to address that is to get into the details of how the power works. That means making new points.
It’s interesting that you assume I’m talking about poorer countries. What about developed Asia? They have a strong medical research corp, and yet they are not home to companies that made covid-19 medication. Even in Europe, many countries are not host to relevant companies. You do realise that drug prices are much lower in the rest of the developed world compared to the US, right? I am not talking about ‘poorer countries’, I am talking about most of the developed world outside of the US, where there are more tightly regulated healthcare sectors, and where the government isn’t merely the tail trying to wag the proverbial dog.
Also, your evidence is not evidence of a worldwide conspiracy. Everything you’ve mentioned is essentially America-centric.
I’m starting to feel like you really don’t know much about how these things work. People put their names on papers they don’t write all the time. Authorship of a paper is an attribution of scientific work, but not necessarily words on paper. In many cases, even minor scientific contribution can mean authorship. This is why in physics author lists can stretch to the thousands. At any rate, improper authorship isn’t the same ‘academic crime’ as plagiarism at all. The problem isn’t plagiarism, it is non-disclosure (of industry links) and improper authorship. It’s also important to note that this is not some kind of unique insight. Even a quick Google search brings up myriad studies on the topic in medical journals, such as: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800869
Studies on ghostwriters in ‘establishment’ journals, by ‘establishment’ authors, recommending more scrutiny!
India and China can actually make credible threads that they just let their own companies break patents if Big Pharma doesn’t sell them drugs at prices they consider reasonable.
When it comes to reducing prices paid, if you look at the UK for example, they have politicians who care about the NHI budget being manageable. If drugs don’t provide enough benefits for the price they cost they don’t approve them, so there’s pressure to name reasonable prices.
Yes, the fact that there’s a lot of conspiracy going on in Big Pharma is not an unique insight. That’s just business as usual for Big Pharma in a way that should be obvious to any observer that pays attention.
Ghost authorship isn’t just putting a name on a paper to which you little contributed but also about the real authors not appearing on the paper. Ghostwriters are people who wrote something and don’t appear on the author list.
If a student goes to upwork, lets someone write him an essay, does a few minor changes, and then turns it in under their own name while leaving out the real author of the paper that’s seen as plagiarism by every academic department out there.
Sure, but that doesn’t address why you think researchers in these countries would be so affected by American pharma that there aren’t enough people to do convincing studies that would affect American bottom lines. In other words, still the same thing: why you think there is evidence of a worldwide conspiracy.
I don’t think that’s right. I think it would be considered academic dishonesty but not plagiarism per se, because for students the expectation for graded work is that they are submitting their own work (or work with fellow students in the same class, for some classes and types of work). However, for papers, works are supposed to be collaborative, so just having additional contributors isn’t itself a problem. The problem instead is that all authors are listed and all authors contributed. In terms of industry research, disclosure of industry links is another problem.
I looked up a few articles on the subject, and it really doesn’t seem like ghostwriting is plagiarism (though it depends on the definition and who you ask!), but it certainly can violate ethical codes or journal guidelines:
https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/sounding-board/ethics-authorship-ghostwriting-plagiarism
https://www.turnitin.com/blog/ghostwriting-in-academic-journals-how-can-we-mitigate-its-impact-on-research-integrity
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2015/03/02/why-is-ghostwriting-not-always-considered-plagiarism/
I think this is my last post on this thread. I’ve made several arguments that were ignored, because you seem to be in favour of raising new points as opposed to addressing arguments. I don’t think it’s quite a Gish Gallop, but unfortunately I also don’t have unlimited time, and I think I’ve already made a strong case here. Readers can make their own decisions on whether to update their beliefs, and feel free to get a last word in.
Whether or not you use the word plagiarism, it’s an ethical violation where people are paid money to do something in secret to further the interest of pharma companies.
What’s what conspiring in private to mislead the public is about. The ghostwriting case is one that’s well-documented. It’s evidence that a lot of conspiracy exists in the field.
Your argument is basically “if they have power to do X, why don’t they also have power to do Y”. The only way to address that is to get into the details of how the power works. That means making new points.