This post feels to me like it doesn’t take seriously the default problems with living in our particular epistemic environment. The meat and dairy industries have historically, and continue to have, a massive influence on our culture through advertisements and lobbying governments. We live in a culture where we now eat more meat than ever. What would this conversation be like if it were happening in a society where eating meat was as rare as being vegan now?
It feels like this is preaching to the choir, and picking on a very small group of people who are not as well resourced (financially or otherwise). The idea that people should be vegan by default is an extremely minority view, even in EA, and so anyone holding this position really has everything stacked against them.
If a small group of “weirdos” is ideological and non truthseeking, I won’t listen to them. Popularity and social custom is the single most important heuristic because almost no one has the cognitive capacity to go on alone. To overcome this burden, I think being truth-seeking helps. That said, your argument could work if most people are not like me, and respond to more emotional motivations. In that case, I’d like that to not be what EA is for but something else. I’m not EA but I quite enjoy my EA friends while not other altruism advocates.
I feel like you’re conflating two different levels, the discourse in wider global society and within a specific community.
I doubt you’d find anyone here who would disagree that actions by big companies that obscure the truth are bad. But they’re not the ones arguing on these forums or reading this post. Vegans have a significant presence in EA spaces so should be contributing to those productively and promoting good epistemic norms. What the lobbying team of Big Meat Co. does has no impact on that.
Also in general I’m leery of any argument of the form “the other side does as bad or worse so its okay for us to do so” given history.
This post feels to me like it doesn’t take seriously the default problems with living in our particular epistemic environment. The meat and dairy industries have historically, and continue to have, a massive influence on our culture through advertisements and lobbying governments. We live in a culture where we now eat more meat than ever. What would this conversation be like if it were happening in a society where eating meat was as rare as being vegan now?
It feels like this is preaching to the choir, and picking on a very small group of people who are not as well resourced (financially or otherwise). The idea that people should be vegan by default is an extremely minority view, even in EA, and so anyone holding this position really has everything stacked against them.
If a small group of “weirdos” is ideological and non truthseeking, I won’t listen to them. Popularity and social custom is the single most important heuristic because almost no one has the cognitive capacity to go on alone. To overcome this burden, I think being truth-seeking helps. That said, your argument could work if most people are not like me, and respond to more emotional motivations. In that case, I’d like that to not be what EA is for but something else. I’m not EA but I quite enjoy my EA friends while not other altruism advocates.
I feel like you’re conflating two different levels, the discourse in wider global society and within a specific community.
I doubt you’d find anyone here who would disagree that actions by big companies that obscure the truth are bad. But they’re not the ones arguing on these forums or reading this post. Vegans have a significant presence in EA spaces so should be contributing to those productively and promoting good epistemic norms. What the lobbying team of Big Meat Co. does has no impact on that.
Also in general I’m leery of any argument of the form “the other side does as bad or worse so its okay for us to do so” given history.
Yeah, I know people who eat a steak every day, and there is no way an average person could have afforded that hundred years ago.
Is there any “eat meat once a week” movement? Possibly worth supporting.
The search term here is ‘reducetarian’