The “Disneyland without Children” short story? Yeah, I did. I’d read it before, and found it a nice fleshing-out of Bostrom’s phrase. I do find it dystopic, but don’t consider it illustrative of a likely future.
I don’t think my disagreement is particularly insightful, but sure: if the painting is beautiful, I don’t care if the artist is ugly or blind. With AI/ML image generation, we now have “beauty too cheap to meter” (Scott Alexander’s phrase), and I don’t see that as a bad thing. What “being human” means is something you construct for yourself, and a worry that it will somehow be lost or replaced is misguided.
Less high-mindedly, the (overwhelming majority of) human artists in power, writing novels, playing music, making movies, creating video games, translating anime/manga, have been telling me loudly and repeatedly for several years now that they despise me and everything I value, so fuck ’em (especially the anime/manga localizers); anything that democratizes their power, diminishes their status, throws open the gates they keep, is good, both for my community as a whole, as well as for me in particular.
what are these things you value that artists despise?
is being a human body not an artistic pursuit, a way of applying artistic intent to negentropy?
what futures seem likely?
do you really not have any interest in the art being the result of an artistic process, does the past not have artistic value to you?
if you could be high on heroin all the time without it interfering with your ability to continue existing, would you, or is that a dissatisfaction of your values?
if someone could make an identical clone of you and torture it, would you wish to prevent it?
what about if the clone was a mini-you, identical in every way but smaller?
what if the clone is only awoken for an hour of torture every day, and is otherwise in cryostasis or some similar instant-frozen thing?
what if the clone is only awoken once a year?
what about if there’s a new clone made every day, and so every time you wake up there’s a 50% probability you’re the torture-clone?
what about if the torture-clone is only a shallow clone?
I don’t know what that is. Genetically identical but not possessing my memories?
2. I wouldn’t use the term “art” for that, no.
4. I don’t have a constructive definition for what counts as an “artistic process,” but I certainly wouldn’t say the past holds no value for me: I like ancient sculptures and the like more than the next guy, and generally loathe iconoclasts and book burners. But if, say, the Library of Alexandria had books that had been printed instead of scribed by hand, I would not consider its burning any less of a loss.
5. No, I wouldn’t. I have never used heroin, but its effects on others don’t seem like the kind of thing I’d wish for myself permanently.
6–10 are easy. I’d consider the clone at least family.
Yeah, I’m not gonna get baited into getting rate-limited by downvotes that easily. All you need to know, if you care to, is that my values and goals differ drastically from most other people here.
EDIT: A mod rate-limited me anyway, perfectly illustrating the stark value difference: I consider that kind of abuse of power an atrocity.
a day later, I can post again: we were both rate limited from this conversation, me presumably because I got annoyed and antagonized you. sorry about that—I was jumping to conclusions, and should have had more uncertainty about what your reasoning was, rather than assuming it’s because you think the things I want in my life should not be in my life. I’ve undone my downvotes of you.
I suspect our values do not differ very much in any deep way, and that the shallow way they differ is a short term difference in what we think is higher priority, rather than anything about what outcome we want. It’s of course possible I’m wrong about this; but, if you read my user profile and pinned comments, it will likely give insight about this, and you can then comment where you disagree about facts or have different preferences. I intend to not downvote you for honest and emotionless description of how our intentions differ.
I generally consider the existence of people having authority over other people a significant negative externality that would ideally be replaced with people knowing how to do peer to peer co-protection. I don’t think that can be done successfully until we get the math right, and until then I am simply focused on understanding the math of distributed systems.
The “Disneyland without Children” short story? Yeah, I did. I’d read it before, and found it a nice fleshing-out of Bostrom’s phrase. I do find it dystopic, but don’t consider it illustrative of a likely future.
I don’t think my disagreement is particularly insightful, but sure: if the painting is beautiful, I don’t care if the artist is ugly or blind. With AI/ML image generation, we now have “beauty too cheap to meter” (Scott Alexander’s phrase), and I don’t see that as a bad thing. What “being human” means is something you construct for yourself, and a worry that it will somehow be lost or replaced is misguided.
Less high-mindedly, the (overwhelming majority of) human artists in power, writing novels, playing music, making movies, creating video games, translating anime/manga, have been telling me loudly and repeatedly for several years now that they despise me and everything I value, so fuck ’em (especially the anime/manga localizers); anything that democratizes their power, diminishes their status, throws open the gates they keep, is good, both for my community as a whole, as well as for me in particular.
what are these things you value that artists despise?
is being a human body not an artistic pursuit, a way of applying artistic intent to negentropy?
what futures seem likely?
do you really not have any interest in the art being the result of an artistic process, does the past not have artistic value to you?
if you could be high on heroin all the time without it interfering with your ability to continue existing, would you, or is that a dissatisfaction of your values?
if someone could make an identical clone of you and torture it, would you wish to prevent it?
what about if the clone was a mini-you, identical in every way but smaller?
what if the clone is only awoken for an hour of torture every day, and is otherwise in cryostasis or some similar instant-frozen thing?
what if the clone is only awoken once a year?
what about if there’s a new clone made every day, and so every time you wake up there’s a 50% probability you’re the torture-clone?
what about if the torture-clone is only a shallow clone?
I don’t know what that is. Genetically identical but not possessing my memories?
2. I wouldn’t use the term “art” for that, no.
4. I don’t have a constructive definition for what counts as an “artistic process,” but I certainly wouldn’t say the past holds no value for me: I like ancient sculptures and the like more than the next guy, and generally loathe iconoclasts and book burners. But if, say, the Library of Alexandria had books that had been printed instead of scribed by hand, I would not consider its burning any less of a loss.
5. No, I wouldn’t. I have never used heroin, but its effects on others don’t seem like the kind of thing I’d wish for myself permanently.
6–10 are easy. I’d consider the clone at least family.
I don’t care to answer 1. and 3.
then I don’t know what this thing is that artists have been saying is bad, and I don’t know how you disagree with me about the future. have a good one
Yeah, I’m not gonna get baited into getting rate-limited by downvotes that easily. All you need to know, if you care to, is that my values and goals differ drastically from most other people here.
EDIT: A mod rate-limited me anyway, perfectly illustrating the stark value difference: I consider that kind of abuse of power an atrocity.
a day later, I can post again: we were both rate limited from this conversation, me presumably because I got annoyed and antagonized you. sorry about that—I was jumping to conclusions, and should have had more uncertainty about what your reasoning was, rather than assuming it’s because you think the things I want in my life should not be in my life. I’ve undone my downvotes of you.
I suspect our values do not differ very much in any deep way, and that the shallow way they differ is a short term difference in what we think is higher priority, rather than anything about what outcome we want. It’s of course possible I’m wrong about this; but, if you read my user profile and pinned comments, it will likely give insight about this, and you can then comment where you disagree about facts or have different preferences. I intend to not downvote you for honest and emotionless description of how our intentions differ.
I generally consider the existence of people having authority over other people a significant negative externality that would ideally be replaced with people knowing how to do peer to peer co-protection. I don’t think that can be done successfully until we get the math right, and until then I am simply focused on understanding the math of distributed systems.