I bet the average LessWrong person has a great sense of humour and feels things more than other people, too.
Seriously, every informal IQ survey amongst a group/forum I have seen reports very high IQ. My (vague) memories of the LessWrong one included people who seemed to be off the scale (I don’t mean very bright. I mean that such IQs either have never been given out in official testing rather than online tests, or possibly that they just can’t be got on those tests and people were lying).
There’s always a massive bias in self-reporting: those will only be emphasised on an intellectual website that starts the survey post by saying that LessWrongers are, on average, in the top 0.11% for SATs, and gives pre-packaged excuses for not reporting inconvenient results - “Many people would prefer not to have people knowing their scores. That’s great, but please please please do post it anonymously. Especially if it’s a low one, but not if it’s low because you rushed the test”, (my emphasis).
If there’s a reason to be interested in average IQ beyond mutual ego-massage, I guess the best way would be to have an IQ test where you logged on as ‘Less Wrong member X’ and then it reported all the results, not just the ones that people chose to share. And where it revealed how many people pulled out halfway through (to avoid people bailing if they weren’t doing well).
Selection bias—which groups and forums actually asked about IQ?
Your average knitting/auto maintenance/comic book forum probably has a lower average IQ but doesn’t think to ask. And of course we’re already selecting a little just by taking the figures off of web forums, which are a little on the cerebral side.
True. I don’t think I can define the precise level of inaccuracy or anything. My point is not that I’ve detected the true signal: it’s that there’s too much noise for there to be a useful signal.
Do I think the average LessWronger has a higher IQ? Sure. But that’s nothing remotely to do with this survey. It’s just too flawed to give me any particularly useful information. I would probably update my view of LW intelligence more based on its existence than its results. In that reading the thread lowers my opinion of LW intellgence, simply because this forum is usually massively more rational and self-questioning than every other forum I’ve been on, which I would guess is associated with high IQ, and people taking the survey seriously is one of the clearest exceptions.
BTW, I’m not sure your assessments of knitting/auto maintenance/comic books/web forums are necessarily accurate. I’m not sure I have enough information on any of them to reasonably guess their intelligence. Forums are particularly exceptional in terms of showing amazing intelligence and incredible stupidity side by side.
If there’s a reason to be interested in average IQ beyond mutual ego-massage, I guess the best way would be to have an IQ test where you logged on as ‘Less Wrong member X’ and then it reported all the results, not just the ones that people chose to share.
Would still suffer from selection effects. People that thought they might not do so well would be disinclined to do it, and people who knew they were hot shit would be extra inclined to do it. The phrase “anonymous survey” doesn’t really penetrate into our status-aware hindbrains.
Better: randomly select a group of users (within some minimal activity criteria) and offer the test directly to that group. Publicly state the names of those selected (make it a short list, so that people actually read it, maybe 10-20) and then after a certain amount of time give another public list of those who did or didn’t take it, along with the results (although don’t associate results with names). That will get you better participation, and the fact that you have taken a group of known size makes it much easier to give outer bounds on the size of the selection effect caused by people not participating.
You can also improve participation by giving those users an easily accessible icon on Less Wrong itself which takes them directly to the test, and maybe a popup reminder once a day or so when they log on to the site if they’ve been selected but haven’t done it yet. Requires moderate coding.
I would find such a feature to be extraordinarily obnoxious, to the point that I’d be inclined to refused such a test purely out of anger (and my scores are not at all embarrassing). I can’t think of any other examples of a website threatening to publicly shame you for non-compliance.
I bet the average LessWrong person has a great sense of humour and feels things more than other people, too.
Seriously, every informal IQ survey amongst a group/forum I have seen reports very high IQ. My (vague) memories of the LessWrong one included people who seemed to be off the scale (I don’t mean very bright. I mean that such IQs either have never been given out in official testing rather than online tests, or possibly that they just can’t be got on those tests and people were lying).
There’s always a massive bias in self-reporting: those will only be emphasised on an intellectual website that starts the survey post by saying that LessWrongers are, on average, in the top 0.11% for SATs, and gives pre-packaged excuses for not reporting inconvenient results - “Many people would prefer not to have people knowing their scores. That’s great, but please please please do post it anonymously. Especially if it’s a low one, but not if it’s low because you rushed the test”, (my emphasis).
If there’s a reason to be interested in average IQ beyond mutual ego-massage, I guess the best way would be to have an IQ test where you logged on as ‘Less Wrong member X’ and then it reported all the results, not just the ones that people chose to share. And where it revealed how many people pulled out halfway through (to avoid people bailing if they weren’t doing well).
Selection bias—which groups and forums actually asked about IQ?
Your average knitting/auto maintenance/comic book forum probably has a lower average IQ but doesn’t think to ask. And of course we’re already selecting a little just by taking the figures off of web forums, which are a little on the cerebral side.
True. I don’t think I can define the precise level of inaccuracy or anything. My point is not that I’ve detected the true signal: it’s that there’s too much noise for there to be a useful signal.
Do I think the average LessWronger has a higher IQ? Sure. But that’s nothing remotely to do with this survey. It’s just too flawed to give me any particularly useful information. I would probably update my view of LW intelligence more based on its existence than its results. In that reading the thread lowers my opinion of LW intellgence, simply because this forum is usually massively more rational and self-questioning than every other forum I’ve been on, which I would guess is associated with high IQ, and people taking the survey seriously is one of the clearest exceptions.
BTW, I’m not sure your assessments of knitting/auto maintenance/comic books/web forums are necessarily accurate. I’m not sure I have enough information on any of them to reasonably guess their intelligence. Forums are particularly exceptional in terms of showing amazing intelligence and incredible stupidity side by side.
People with high IQ have extra power to be exceptionally stupid.
Would still suffer from selection effects. People that thought they might not do so well would be disinclined to do it, and people who knew they were hot shit would be extra inclined to do it. The phrase “anonymous survey” doesn’t really penetrate into our status-aware hindbrains.
Yep! But it’s the best way I can imagine that someone could plausibly create on the forum.
Better: randomly select a group of users (within some minimal activity criteria) and offer the test directly to that group. Publicly state the names of those selected (make it a short list, so that people actually read it, maybe 10-20) and then after a certain amount of time give another public list of those who did or didn’t take it, along with the results (although don’t associate results with names). That will get you better participation, and the fact that you have taken a group of known size makes it much easier to give outer bounds on the size of the selection effect caused by people not participating.
You can also improve participation by giving those users an easily accessible icon on Less Wrong itself which takes them directly to the test, and maybe a popup reminder once a day or so when they log on to the site if they’ve been selected but haven’t done it yet. Requires moderate coding.
I would find such a feature to be extraordinarily obnoxious, to the point that I’d be inclined to refused such a test purely out of anger (and my scores are not at all embarrassing). I can’t think of any other examples of a website threatening to publicly shame you for non-compliance.
btw, in Markdown use double asterisks at each end for bold, like this **bold text.
with two at the end also.