I agree with the other commentors on two things: you very likely won’t be able to change your father’s mind and that shouldn’t be your goal, and an evo-psych book probably won’t help. There are successful statistical evo-psych studies, but I think you should take the conversation to another level.
Specifically, as another commenter posted, the Euthyphro dilemma makes his line of reasoning very questionable. God-centered theories of morality are SUBJECTIVE morality theories, as evidenced by a simple thought experiment: imagine Satan, instead of the Christian god, created the world. In this hypothetical are murder and rape now moral? If not, then the act of creating humans and telling them what to do can’t be a true objective source of morality.
Or, another revealing thought experiment: why, in detail, does god being god make him an arbiter of morality? The answer will usually be something like, “promise of eternal punishment/reward,” “he’s very wise,” “the creation must not question the creator.” These all correlate to PRIOR moral mandates that you must accept before following god’s morality (respectively, “moral actions are based entirely on personal consequences,” “smart people are always moral and should be followed,” and “morality is strictly founded on rules passed down from a creator to a creation”). The point isn’t that all of these prior moral rules are bad (though they are), but that they simply have to exist. You can’t get to “we should follow god” without one.
Put very plainly: if god’s a bad guy, we shouldn’t do what he says.
If your father agrees to this, then you’ve divorced morality from god and have a more productive conversation on the origin of morality. If he doesn’t, then he’s admitted that he could be a bad guy; how could he possibly lecture you on morality after that?
(The common rejoinder is that god simply is goodness, or that goodness is essential to his nature; this is a black box tactic, a stopping point. If you poke further you’ll see that it’s not an answer at all. Be ready for this. If he insists, ask him to play rationalist’s taboo with “nature.” If he won’t, then drop the conversation! Argument is about resolving confusion and learning new things. Those who refuse to take steps to those goals are not worth your emotional energy, no matter how close you might be to them on an emotional level.)
My friend, who is a campus minister, asked me to read the same book after hearing I was an atheist. I read the whole thing and found it very, very bad. My copy is filled with notes. I’d be happy to share further thoughts through pm if you have more difficulty. But first and foremost my suggestion is to get your relationship with your father to a point such that he isn’t frequently haranguing you about your beliefs. Study takes time; you can’t usually be prepared for any argument he can throw at you. But they will almost certainly not be novel. They will largely be cached and rehearsed arguments. Tell him that you feel debate should be about learning, not about winning, and so you should take time to study his arguments.
The answers are out there. The problem is that some of them are very technical, and some of them rely on revealing errors of thought you probably don’t yet know. The rest of my rambling about morality was just to help this process. However, make notes of how much mental and emotional energy you are spending on this. There are harder questions in life. Given that you don’t believe in god, there are probably more important questions as well. Remember not to get bogged down. Take long breaks, or simply ignore it if it’s too much of a hassle. The degree to which you owe him a debate is a function of your emotional relationship and nothing else. There’s no principle of it.
If you poke further you’ll see that it’s not an answer at all. Be ready for this. If he insists, ask him to play rationalist’s taboo with “nature.” If he won’t, then drop the conversation! Argument is about resolving confusion and learning new things. Those who refuse to take steps to those goals are not worth your emotional energy, no matter how close you might be to them on an emotional level.
I upvoted your comment, but the quote seems like very bad advice; not everything has to serve the goal of seeking Truth, even if it’s somehow “about resolving confusion and learning new things.”
Of course, it would be even more productive if we could persuade everyone we talk to to optimize their arguments for truth-seeking, not persuasiveness, but simply refusing to speak with them if they don’t is simply rude (and kind of phygish.)
I agree with the other commentors on two things: you very likely won’t be able to change your father’s mind and that shouldn’t be your goal, and an evo-psych book probably won’t help. There are successful statistical evo-psych studies, but I think you should take the conversation to another level.
Specifically, as another commenter posted, the Euthyphro dilemma makes his line of reasoning very questionable. God-centered theories of morality are SUBJECTIVE morality theories, as evidenced by a simple thought experiment: imagine Satan, instead of the Christian god, created the world. In this hypothetical are murder and rape now moral? If not, then the act of creating humans and telling them what to do can’t be a true objective source of morality.
Or, another revealing thought experiment: why, in detail, does god being god make him an arbiter of morality? The answer will usually be something like, “promise of eternal punishment/reward,” “he’s very wise,” “the creation must not question the creator.” These all correlate to PRIOR moral mandates that you must accept before following god’s morality (respectively, “moral actions are based entirely on personal consequences,” “smart people are always moral and should be followed,” and “morality is strictly founded on rules passed down from a creator to a creation”). The point isn’t that all of these prior moral rules are bad (though they are), but that they simply have to exist. You can’t get to “we should follow god” without one.
Put very plainly: if god’s a bad guy, we shouldn’t do what he says.
If your father agrees to this, then you’ve divorced morality from god and have a more productive conversation on the origin of morality. If he doesn’t, then he’s admitted that he could be a bad guy; how could he possibly lecture you on morality after that?
(The common rejoinder is that god simply is goodness, or that goodness is essential to his nature; this is a black box tactic, a stopping point. If you poke further you’ll see that it’s not an answer at all. Be ready for this. If he insists, ask him to play rationalist’s taboo with “nature.” If he won’t, then drop the conversation! Argument is about resolving confusion and learning new things. Those who refuse to take steps to those goals are not worth your emotional energy, no matter how close you might be to them on an emotional level.)
My friend, who is a campus minister, asked me to read the same book after hearing I was an atheist. I read the whole thing and found it very, very bad. My copy is filled with notes. I’d be happy to share further thoughts through pm if you have more difficulty. But first and foremost my suggestion is to get your relationship with your father to a point such that he isn’t frequently haranguing you about your beliefs. Study takes time; you can’t usually be prepared for any argument he can throw at you. But they will almost certainly not be novel. They will largely be cached and rehearsed arguments. Tell him that you feel debate should be about learning, not about winning, and so you should take time to study his arguments.
The answers are out there. The problem is that some of them are very technical, and some of them rely on revealing errors of thought you probably don’t yet know. The rest of my rambling about morality was just to help this process. However, make notes of how much mental and emotional energy you are spending on this. There are harder questions in life. Given that you don’t believe in god, there are probably more important questions as well. Remember not to get bogged down. Take long breaks, or simply ignore it if it’s too much of a hassle. The degree to which you owe him a debate is a function of your emotional relationship and nothing else. There’s no principle of it.
I upvoted your comment, but the quote seems like very bad advice; not everything has to serve the goal of seeking Truth, even if it’s somehow “about resolving confusion and learning new things.”
Of course, it would be even more productive if we could persuade everyone we talk to to optimize their arguments for truth-seeking, not persuasiveness, but simply refusing to speak with them if they don’t is simply rude (and kind of phygish.)