When someone “talks about women as if they were a strange incomprehensible unsympathetic Other” (as Eliezer put it), are they necessarily “denying the humanity of” women? I agree that “talking about women as an incomprehensible Other” is a trope that has often helped men exclude women from groups and conversations. If a group of men talks a lot about how women are mysterious and incomprehensible, then that’s surely going to make it harder for women to become accepted members of that group. However, that doesn’t mean that the group is denying the humanity of women, as they may only be speaking for themselves, not for humanity. As I read it, Robin’s post only dealt with his own ability (or lack thereof) to understand of women, and not the ability of “men,” “humans,” or any other group.
Of course, he is writing for an audience, so insofar as he expects his readership to have the same level-of-understanding that he does, he is claiming something about the level-of-understanding of the group “OB readers.” But I’m not sure he actually expected that. Like many posts on OB, I took his post to be a set of discussion-starting suggestions that are open to revision by readers who know more about the issue than he does. An clearer expression of his relative lack of qualification would have been nice, though.
Personally, I have two big issues with Robin’s post, but neither of them have to do with treating women as an Other. (I agree with Eliezer that this is not a problem, so long as one makes sure to emphasize that one is only making claims about one’s own ability to understand, and not the ability of some group that one belongs to.) My first complaint is that he implied that there are only two possible explanations for OB’s low female readership, and that the cited explanations did not nearly seem to cover all the potentially important factors. He has now added a disclaimer precluding this interpretation, so I guess he never intended it in the first place? My second complaint is that he seems to conflate the questions “is OB’s project ‘male’?” and “why does OB have relatively few female readers?” It makes sense to quote gender-essentialist epistemologists by way of answering the first question. I’d imagine that people who say “OB’s project is male” are subscribers to that kind of epistemology, as otherwise it’d be hard to say how the abstract philosophical issues that concern (much of) OB’s project could be considered “male.” On the other hand, “women judging OB’s project to be male” is only one of many imaginable factors in OB’s low female participation, and acting like it’s the only one is just bizarre.
Without intending offense to people who have posted about the issue (as, after all, I’m one of them), I hope this doesn’t just become a discussion of Robin’s old post, as there are other interesting issues raised in the OP. Although, most of those issues are relevant to Robin’s post, at least to the issue of whether he views women as an Other and whether this is bad.
Angel,
When someone “talks about women as if they were a strange incomprehensible unsympathetic Other” (as Eliezer put it), are they necessarily “denying the humanity of” women? I agree that “talking about women as an incomprehensible Other” is a trope that has often helped men exclude women from groups and conversations. If a group of men talks a lot about how women are mysterious and incomprehensible, then that’s surely going to make it harder for women to become accepted members of that group. However, that doesn’t mean that the group is denying the humanity of women, as they may only be speaking for themselves, not for humanity. As I read it, Robin’s post only dealt with his own ability (or lack thereof) to understand of women, and not the ability of “men,” “humans,” or any other group.
Of course, he is writing for an audience, so insofar as he expects his readership to have the same level-of-understanding that he does, he is claiming something about the level-of-understanding of the group “OB readers.” But I’m not sure he actually expected that. Like many posts on OB, I took his post to be a set of discussion-starting suggestions that are open to revision by readers who know more about the issue than he does. An clearer expression of his relative lack of qualification would have been nice, though.
Personally, I have two big issues with Robin’s post, but neither of them have to do with treating women as an Other. (I agree with Eliezer that this is not a problem, so long as one makes sure to emphasize that one is only making claims about one’s own ability to understand, and not the ability of some group that one belongs to.) My first complaint is that he implied that there are only two possible explanations for OB’s low female readership, and that the cited explanations did not nearly seem to cover all the potentially important factors. He has now added a disclaimer precluding this interpretation, so I guess he never intended it in the first place? My second complaint is that he seems to conflate the questions “is OB’s project ‘male’?” and “why does OB have relatively few female readers?” It makes sense to quote gender-essentialist epistemologists by way of answering the first question. I’d imagine that people who say “OB’s project is male” are subscribers to that kind of epistemology, as otherwise it’d be hard to say how the abstract philosophical issues that concern (much of) OB’s project could be considered “male.” On the other hand, “women judging OB’s project to be male” is only one of many imaginable factors in OB’s low female participation, and acting like it’s the only one is just bizarre.
Without intending offense to people who have posted about the issue (as, after all, I’m one of them), I hope this doesn’t just become a discussion of Robin’s old post, as there are other interesting issues raised in the OP. Although, most of those issues are relevant to Robin’s post, at least to the issue of whether he views women as an Other and whether this is bad.