I think you were too convinced I was wrong in your previous message for this to be true. I think you didn’t even consider the possibility that complexity of a statement constitutes evidence and that you had never heard the phrasing before. (Admittedly, I should have used the words “total ignorance”, but still)
Your previous post strikes me as a knee-jerk reaction. “Well, that’s obviously wrong”. Not as an attempt to seriously consider under which circumstances the statement could be true. You also incorrectly claimed I was an ignoramus rationalist (for which you didn’t apologize) which only provides further evidence you didn’t really think before you started writing your critique (because who seriously considers the opinions of an ignoramus?).
And now, instead of just saying “Oops” you shift the goalpost from “false no matter what way you look at it” to something fuzzy where we’re simply talking about different things.
You are probably right, but I would suggest you to phrase your reaction less combatively. Especially the last sentence is superfluous; it doesn’t contain any information and only heats up the debate.
“Any proposition starts out with a 50% probability of being true” is still utterly wrong. Because “any” indicates multiplicity. At the point where you claim these proposition “begin”, they aren’t even differentiated into different propositions; they’re nothing but the abstraction of a letter P as in “the unknown proposition P”.
I’ve conceded that you were instead talking about an abstraction of statements, not any actual statements. At this point, if you want to duel it out to the end, I will say that you failed at using language in order to communicate meaning, and you were abstracting words to the point of meaninglessness.
edit to add: And as a sidenote, even unknown statements can’t be divided into 50% chance of truth and 50% falsehood, as there’s always the chances of self-referential contradiction (e.g. the statement “This statement is wrong”, which can never be assigned a True/False value), self-referential validity (e.g. The statement “This statement is true”, which can be assigned either a true or false value), confusion of terms (e.g. The statement “A tree falling in the woods makes a sound.” which depends on how one defines a “sound”.), utter meaninglessness (“Colorless green ideas sleep furiously”) etc, etc.
Now that I’ve cooled off a bit, let me state in detail my complaint against this comment of yours.
You seem to be asking for the highest amount of charity towards your statements. To the point that I ought strive for many long minutes to figure out a sense in which your words might be correct, even if I’d have to fix your claim (e.g. turn ‘statement’ into ‘proposition’—and add after ‘any proposition starts out’ the parenthetical ‘before it is actually stated in words’) before it actually becomes correct.
But in return you provide the least amount of charity towards my own statements: I kept using the word “seems” in my original response to you (thus showing it may just be a misunderstanding) and I did NOT use the word ‘ignoramus’ which you accuse me of claiming you to be—I used the term ‘Level-0 rationalist’. You may think it’s okay to paraphrase Lesswrong beliefs to show how they might appear to other people, but please don’t paraphrase me and then ask for an apology for the words you put in my mouth. That’s a major no-no. Don’t put words in my mouth, period.
No, I did not apologize for calling you a Level-0 rationalist; I still do not apologize for putting you in that category, since that’s where your badly chosen words properly assigned you (the vast majority of people who’d say something like “all statements begin with a 50% probability” would truly be Level-0), NOR do I apologize for stating I had placed you in that category: would you prefer if everyone here had just downvoted your article instead of giving you a chance to clarify that (seemingly) terribly wrong position first?
Your whole post was about how badly communicated beliefs confer us low status in the minds of others. It was only proper that I should tell you what a status you had achieved in my mind.
I don’t consider you a Level-0 rationalist anymore. But I consider you an extremely low-level communicator.
I think you were too convinced I was wrong in your previous message for this to be true. I think you didn’t even consider the possibility that complexity of a statement constitutes evidence and that you had never heard the phrasing before. (Admittedly, I should have used the words “total ignorance”, but still)
Your previous post strikes me as a knee-jerk reaction. “Well, that’s obviously wrong”. Not as an attempt to seriously consider under which circumstances the statement could be true. You also incorrectly claimed I was an ignoramus rationalist (for which you didn’t apologize) which only provides further evidence you didn’t really think before you started writing your critique (because who seriously considers the opinions of an ignoramus?).
And now, instead of just saying “Oops” you shift the goalpost from “false no matter what way you look at it” to something fuzzy where we’re simply talking about different things.
This is blatant intellectual dishonesty.
You are probably right, but I would suggest you to phrase your reaction less combatively. Especially the last sentence is superfluous; it doesn’t contain any information and only heats up the debate.
“Any proposition starts out with a 50% probability of being true” is still utterly wrong. Because “any” indicates multiplicity. At the point where you claim these proposition “begin”, they aren’t even differentiated into different propositions; they’re nothing but the abstraction of a letter P as in “the unknown proposition P”.
I’ve conceded that you were instead talking about an abstraction of statements, not any actual statements. At this point, if you want to duel it out to the end, I will say that you failed at using language in order to communicate meaning, and you were abstracting words to the point of meaninglessness.
edit to add: And as a sidenote, even unknown statements can’t be divided into 50% chance of truth and 50% falsehood, as there’s always the chances of self-referential contradiction (e.g. the statement “This statement is wrong”, which can never be assigned a True/False value), self-referential validity (e.g. The statement “This statement is true”, which can be assigned either a true or false value), confusion of terms (e.g. The statement “A tree falling in the woods makes a sound.” which depends on how one defines a “sound”.), utter meaninglessness (“Colorless green ideas sleep furiously”) etc, etc.
Now that I’ve cooled off a bit, let me state in detail my complaint against this comment of yours.
You seem to be asking for the highest amount of charity towards your statements. To the point that I ought strive for many long minutes to figure out a sense in which your words might be correct, even if I’d have to fix your claim (e.g. turn ‘statement’ into ‘proposition’—and add after ‘any proposition starts out’ the parenthetical ‘before it is actually stated in words’) before it actually becomes correct.
But in return you provide the least amount of charity towards my own statements: I kept using the word “seems” in my original response to you (thus showing it may just be a misunderstanding) and I did NOT use the word ‘ignoramus’ which you accuse me of claiming you to be—I used the term ‘Level-0 rationalist’. You may think it’s okay to paraphrase Lesswrong beliefs to show how they might appear to other people, but please don’t paraphrase me and then ask for an apology for the words you put in my mouth. That’s a major no-no. Don’t put words in my mouth, period.
No, I did not apologize for calling you a Level-0 rationalist; I still do not apologize for putting you in that category, since that’s where your badly chosen words properly assigned you (the vast majority of people who’d say something like “all statements begin with a 50% probability” would truly be Level-0), NOR do I apologize for stating I had placed you in that category: would you prefer if everyone here had just downvoted your article instead of giving you a chance to clarify that (seemingly) terribly wrong position first?
Your whole post was about how badly communicated beliefs confer us low status in the minds of others. It was only proper that I should tell you what a status you had achieved in my mind.
I don’t consider you a Level-0 rationalist anymore. But I consider you an extremely low-level communicator.