I think this is an interesting and useful view, if applied judiciously. In particular, it will always tend to be most relevant for crony beliefs—beliefs that affect the belief-holder’s life mainly through other people’s opinions of them, like much of politics and some of religion. When it comes to close-up stuff that can cause benefit or harm directly, you will find that most people really do have a model of the world. When you ask someone whether so-and-so would make a good president, the answer is often a signal about their cultural affiliations. Ask them which is the fastest way to get to where they work, and the answer reflects what they’ve learned about rush-hour traffic patterns. Ask people if they believe in God, and the answer is a signal. Ask them if they believe pre-marital sex is ever acceptable, and the answer you get is a lot more practical.
It’s also worth unpacking the us-vs-them terminology you employ here. Many of us may tend to be more literal than the average person (especially those who fall on the spectrum) but in my experience we are still prone to this same behavior. In most cases, there’s nothing wrong with that. Understanding the difference can help us avoid trying to cooperatively world-model with people who are just expressing social beliefs, and can also help us recognize world-modeling when we see it, so that we can reduce our tendency to make snap judgements about people on the basis of the beliefs they express.
When it comes to close-up stuff that can cause benefit or harm directly, you will find that most people really do have a model of the world.
This. Although even there people sometimes develop an absence of model. But often they don’t.
in my experience we are still prone to this same behavior.
I like this approach in general. Complaining about humans doing stupid things is like complaining about water being wet. But it is potentially useful to look at some obviously stupid behavior and ask: “Am I doing this too? Maybe on a smaller scale, or in a different area, but essentially the same mistake?”
Quite right. They don’t think those are beliefs, but those parts of their minds do work like a model.
They don’t consciously model, but all mammals model subconsciously, right?
If I was going to clarify, I might say something like “This applies to abstract beliefs that they can’t actually observe themselves being wrong about on a regular basis, like most of the ones they have about politics, religion, psychology, parenting strategies, etc.”
I think this is an interesting and useful view, if applied judiciously. In particular, it will always tend to be most relevant for crony beliefs—beliefs that affect the belief-holder’s life mainly through other people’s opinions of them, like much of politics and some of religion. When it comes to close-up stuff that can cause benefit or harm directly, you will find that most people really do have a model of the world. When you ask someone whether so-and-so would make a good president, the answer is often a signal about their cultural affiliations. Ask them which is the fastest way to get to where they work, and the answer reflects what they’ve learned about rush-hour traffic patterns. Ask people if they believe in God, and the answer is a signal. Ask them if they believe pre-marital sex is ever acceptable, and the answer you get is a lot more practical.
It’s also worth unpacking the us-vs-them terminology you employ here. Many of us may tend to be more literal than the average person (especially those who fall on the spectrum) but in my experience we are still prone to this same behavior. In most cases, there’s nothing wrong with that. Understanding the difference can help us avoid trying to cooperatively world-model with people who are just expressing social beliefs, and can also help us recognize world-modeling when we see it, so that we can reduce our tendency to make snap judgements about people on the basis of the beliefs they express.
This. Although even there people sometimes develop an absence of model. But often they don’t.
I like this approach in general. Complaining about humans doing stupid things is like complaining about water being wet. But it is potentially useful to look at some obviously stupid behavior and ask: “Am I doing this too? Maybe on a smaller scale, or in a different area, but essentially the same mistake?”
Quite right. They don’t think those are beliefs, but those parts of their minds do work like a model.
They don’t consciously model, but all mammals model subconsciously, right?
If I was going to clarify, I might say something like “This applies to abstract beliefs that they can’t actually observe themselves being wrong about on a regular basis, like most of the ones they have about politics, religion, psychology, parenting strategies, etc.”