I would take Bob’s deal if either adequately compensated or convinced that the premise was true. I already have done work for pay that was so unpleasant I’d rather be tortured for a short time than do that sort of work again, and time wasted is partial death anyway.
As for our culture in general, this deal is very very common. Many people watch someone from another universe, a ‘fictional person’ being tortured to death for their entertainment, and there isn’t any proof that the characters in, say, Saw, aren’t real people somewhere. Now, before we come down hard on horror fans, note that every fan of the Dark Knight movie with Heath Ledger is watching entertainment that killed someone. Every person who relaxes by reading history or war …. everyone who reads the Bible or watches most entertainment based on it. At least Eliezer’s example President is honest enough to say that he needs to watch this to refresh his spirit; people (like me!) who go and refresh their spirit by looking at past sufferings of people, animals, etc are at least ‘guilty’ of encouraging that type of suffering
in much the same way that hamburger buyers (in a modern farm economy) are guilty of causing animal suffering.
Note that /I do not think suffering is bad/ in and of itself. Sometimes it /is/ necessary. Bob and the President might just be doing something sensible.
Considering that IRL we have had a series of leaders who make themselves feel better by /torturing people non-consensually/, I’d rather live in Bob’s world where it’s Bradley Manning, or some random Afghan goat farmer whose neighbor wanted to graze on their land, who is getting tortured, in some cases to death, so that Great Leader can feel better.
Many people watch someone from another universe, a ‘fictional person’ being tortured to death for their entertainment, and there isn’t any proof that the characters in, say, Saw, aren’t real people somewhere.
Likewise, if you watch fiction where people are happy, there isn’t any proof that the existence of a happy character in your fiction isn’t associated with a real person somewhere who is suffering.
Thinking about the possibility that there’s a suffering person who corresponds to fiction about a suffering fictional character, but not thinking about the possibility that there’s a suffering person who corresponds to a happy fictional character, or for that matter the possibility that there’s a suffering person (created by a perverse Omega) who comes into existence whenever you eat a slice of pizza is a form of availability bias. It’s easier to imagine the former since your mind is processing the concept of suffering at the time, but there’s no actual reason to expect that that pair is any more closely connected than any other arbitrary pair.
I would take Bob’s deal if either adequately compensated or convinced that the premise was true. I already have done work for pay that was so unpleasant I’d rather be tortured for a short time than do that sort of work again, and time wasted is partial death anyway.
As for our culture in general, this deal is very very common. Many people watch someone from another universe, a ‘fictional person’ being tortured to death for their entertainment, and there isn’t any proof that the characters in, say, Saw, aren’t real people somewhere. Now, before we come down hard on horror fans, note that every fan of the Dark Knight movie with Heath Ledger is watching entertainment that killed someone. Every person who relaxes by reading history or war …. everyone who reads the Bible or watches most entertainment based on it. At least Eliezer’s example President is honest enough to say that he needs to watch this to refresh his spirit; people (like me!) who go and refresh their spirit by looking at past sufferings of people, animals, etc are at least ‘guilty’ of encouraging that type of suffering in much the same way that hamburger buyers (in a modern farm economy) are guilty of causing animal suffering.
Note that /I do not think suffering is bad/ in and of itself. Sometimes it /is/ necessary. Bob and the President might just be doing something sensible.
Considering that IRL we have had a series of leaders who make themselves feel better by /torturing people non-consensually/, I’d rather live in Bob’s world where it’s Bradley Manning, or some random Afghan goat farmer whose neighbor wanted to graze on their land, who is getting tortured, in some cases to death, so that Great Leader can feel better.
Likewise, if you watch fiction where people are happy, there isn’t any proof that the existence of a happy character in your fiction isn’t associated with a real person somewhere who is suffering.
Thinking about the possibility that there’s a suffering person who corresponds to fiction about a suffering fictional character, but not thinking about the possibility that there’s a suffering person who corresponds to a happy fictional character, or for that matter the possibility that there’s a suffering person (created by a perverse Omega) who comes into existence whenever you eat a slice of pizza is a form of availability bias. It’s easier to imagine the former since your mind is processing the concept of suffering at the time, but there’s no actual reason to expect that that pair is any more closely connected than any other arbitrary pair.