I’m not talking about learning language, I’m talking about how we chunk the world into objects. It’s not about learning the word “tree”, it’s about recognizing the category-of-things which we happen to call trees. It’s about thinking that maybe the things I know about one of the things-we-call-trees are likely to generalize to other things-I-call-trees. We must do that before attaching the word “tree” to the concept, because otherwise it would take millions of examples to hone in on which concept the word is trying to point to.
I agree that chunking precedes naming – historically. But I think most (a lot?) of people learn the name first and have to (try to) reverse engineer the chunking. Some of this definitely happens iteratively and interactively, e.g. when teaching children.
And I’m very unsure that there is one simple way for “how we chunk the world into objects”. I think that might explain why some people chunk the same words so differently: there’s no (obvious) unique best way to chunk some ideas for everyone.
I know that people that are relatively competent at chess reliably chunk board states in a way that I know that I don’t (as I’m not at all good at chess).
Similarly, people that already knows a variety of different plants (at least) seems to chunk them in a way that I don’t.
We must do that before attaching the word “tree” to the concept, because otherwise it would take millions of examples to hone in on which concept the word is trying to point to.
I don’t think this is true. If anything, some ideas/concepts seem to start with very coarse chunking based on a very small number of prototypical examples, and then it does take ‘millions’ of subsequent examples to refine the chunking. And that is definitely sometimes mediated directly via language.
I think there is a lot of pre-verbal or non-verbal chunking involved in thinking.
But I also think it’s very common to not have a chunk (“concept”) before learning the word, even of something like apples.
Tho I also think the opposite is pretty common – ‘Oh, that’s the word for those!’.
There’s an attention component to chunking. I could chunk some set of things into neat categories – if I examined it closely for a sufficient duration. But I mostly don’t – relative to all possible things I could be examining.
I’m not talking about learning language, I’m talking about how we chunk the world into objects. It’s not about learning the word “tree”, it’s about recognizing the category-of-things which we happen to call trees. It’s about thinking that maybe the things I know about one of the things-we-call-trees are likely to generalize to other things-I-call-trees. We must do that before attaching the word “tree” to the concept, because otherwise it would take millions of examples to hone in on which concept the word is trying to point to.
I agree that chunking precedes naming – historically. But I think most (a lot?) of people learn the name first and have to (try to) reverse engineer the chunking. Some of this definitely happens iteratively and interactively, e.g. when teaching children.
And I’m very unsure that there is one simple way for “how we chunk the world into objects”. I think that might explain why some people chunk the same words so differently: there’s no (obvious) unique best way to chunk some ideas for everyone.
I know that people that are relatively competent at chess reliably chunk board states in a way that I know that I don’t (as I’m not at all good at chess).
Similarly, people that already knows a variety of different plants (at least) seems to chunk them in a way that I don’t.
I don’t think this is true. If anything, some ideas/concepts seem to start with very coarse chunking based on a very small number of prototypical examples, and then it does take ‘millions’ of subsequent examples to refine the chunking. And that is definitely sometimes mediated directly via language.
I think there is a lot of pre-verbal or non-verbal chunking involved in thinking.
But I also think it’s very common to not have a chunk (“concept”) before learning the word, even of something like apples.
Tho I also think the opposite is pretty common – ‘Oh, that’s the word for those!’.
There’s an attention component to chunking. I could chunk some set of things into neat categories – if I examined it closely for a sufficient duration. But I mostly don’t – relative to all possible things I could be examining.