I upvoted because this is a good effort to make your probabilities explicit.
One meta point: A lot of this seems a bit too nihilistic. Cryonics is small, very small. If you, Jeff Kaufman, decide (and actually go through with the process) of signing up, that act non-trivially decreases the probability that cryonics will be outlawed. If you decide to contribute even in some small way to the (non-profit) org, that act decreases the probability that the org will fail, scaled (enormously) by how actively you engage. If you move closer to the org you sign up with, that increases the probability of a good cryopres. If you don’t engage in risky behaviors, that decreases the prob of an acute event which would disallow a cryopres. If you exercise, that decreases the prob of developing AD. And etc.
Most of the activities you propose increase the cost (non monetary) of cryonics to me. If I actively engage in cryonics organizations, it becomes more likely to work, but I’d rather spend the time playing music. Similarly, does it take more than an additional $300/year to double my chances of revival? If not, it’s still not worth it for me.
Treating it as a charity make sense to me. Me signing up helps other people who sign up. Unfortunately for cryonics, it has tough competition as a charity. I don’t think it comes anywhere close to givewell’s top charity.
Similarly, does it take more than an additional $300/year to double my chances of revival?
I don’t know, what do you think? It seems to me that if you can figure out some way to help the brain preservation foundation (http://www.brainpreservation.org/) develop a non-cryogenic (i.e., room temp) method of preservation, it could much more than double your chances.
Unfortunately for cryonics, it has tough competition as a charity. I don’t think it comes anywhere close to givewell’s top charity.
Looking back on it, which activity has had more benefit over its lifespan, the development of antibiotics in the 1930′s, or the development and enactment of the US welfare state in the 1930s? Which one cost more money?
Looking back on it, which activity has had more benefit over its lifespan, the development of antibiotics in the 1930′s, or the development and enactment of the US welfare state in the 1930s? Which one cost more money?
I don’t understand how this is relevant. The money I donate (1) does not go to the US welfare state. Do you think that $1K spent on cryonics saves an expected life? If not, I don’t think it beats village reach as a charity.
(1) I take donation and charity seriously. I believe I should earn as much money as I can so that I can give away as much as I can. In 2010 my wife and I gave away $45K, spending $22K on us.
OK, I update my “surprise” based on this info that you donate so much to charity. Good stuff.
I was using that as an example of how 1) donations to well-meaning and efficacious current charities can have unintended negative consequences in the long run (i.e., make people dependent), and 2) investments in scientific research (including the societal infrastructure to support it) tend to pay off great dividends in the long run.
I’ve never heard anybody claim welfare was “efficacious.” Comparing public health charities to welfare rather than antibiotics seems pretty goofy to me.
It seems to me that if you can figure out some way to help the brain preservation foundation develop a non-cryogenic (i.e., room temp) method of preservation, it could much more than double your chances.
I agree that plastification or something existing would more than double my chances. But a lot of work needs to go into that. I’m not at all convinced that me giving them $300 would come close to doubling my chances.
I agree that $300, with no concomitant time investment, would probably not be enough.
I guess I’m just surprised that a (smart) person could read all of this information about a potentially hugely transformative technology, assign such a low probability (20%) to the likelihood that “not all of what makes you you is encoded in the physical state of the brain,” and still just generally not care much and prefer to go play music instead. I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m weird.
It seems unlikely to me that I can have a large effect on the probabilities; they will probably stay very small even if I put in a lot of work. So I think time spent on music will make me happier than time spent on cryonics.
I upvoted because this is a good effort to make your probabilities explicit.
One meta point: A lot of this seems a bit too nihilistic. Cryonics is small, very small. If you, Jeff Kaufman, decide (and actually go through with the process) of signing up, that act non-trivially decreases the probability that cryonics will be outlawed. If you decide to contribute even in some small way to the (non-profit) org, that act decreases the probability that the org will fail, scaled (enormously) by how actively you engage. If you move closer to the org you sign up with, that increases the probability of a good cryopres. If you don’t engage in risky behaviors, that decreases the prob of an acute event which would disallow a cryopres. If you exercise, that decreases the prob of developing AD. And etc.
You seem to be approaching cryonics as pure consumption, when you stand to gain much more (and do much more good, see http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/cryonics-as-charity.html) if you consider it more of an active pursuit.
Perhaps it is easier, mentally, to ignore this factor (which others, including Robin Hanson, seem to have done), but it doesn’t seem prudent.
Most of the activities you propose increase the cost (non monetary) of cryonics to me. If I actively engage in cryonics organizations, it becomes more likely to work, but I’d rather spend the time playing music. Similarly, does it take more than an additional $300/year to double my chances of revival? If not, it’s still not worth it for me.
Treating it as a charity make sense to me. Me signing up helps other people who sign up. Unfortunately for cryonics, it has tough competition as a charity. I don’t think it comes anywhere close to givewell’s top charity.
I don’t know, what do you think? It seems to me that if you can figure out some way to help the brain preservation foundation (http://www.brainpreservation.org/) develop a non-cryogenic (i.e., room temp) method of preservation, it could much more than double your chances.
Looking back on it, which activity has had more benefit over its lifespan, the development of antibiotics in the 1930′s, or the development and enactment of the US welfare state in the 1930s? Which one cost more money?
I don’t understand how this is relevant. The money I donate (1) does not go to the US welfare state. Do you think that $1K spent on cryonics saves an expected life? If not, I don’t think it beats village reach as a charity.
(1) I take donation and charity seriously. I believe I should earn as much money as I can so that I can give away as much as I can. In 2010 my wife and I gave away $45K, spending $22K on us.
OK, I update my “surprise” based on this info that you donate so much to charity. Good stuff.
I was using that as an example of how 1) donations to well-meaning and efficacious current charities can have unintended negative consequences in the long run (i.e., make people dependent), and 2) investments in scientific research (including the societal infrastructure to support it) tend to pay off great dividends in the long run.
I’ve never heard anybody claim welfare was “efficacious.” Comparing public health charities to welfare rather than antibiotics seems pretty goofy to me.
I agree that plastification or something existing would more than double my chances. But a lot of work needs to go into that. I’m not at all convinced that me giving them $300 would come close to doubling my chances.
I agree that $300, with no concomitant time investment, would probably not be enough.
I guess I’m just surprised that a (smart) person could read all of this information about a potentially hugely transformative technology, assign such a low probability (20%) to the likelihood that “not all of what makes you you is encoded in the physical state of the brain,” and still just generally not care much and prefer to go play music instead. I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m weird.
It seems unlikely to me that I can have a large effect on the probabilities; they will probably stay very small even if I put in a lot of work. So I think time spent on music will make me happier than time spent on cryonics.