I wouldn’t say Jaron thinks the discussion is “silly.” He has several rather stark differences with EY, which he makes clear. First, it’s obvious—and he basically comes out and says so—that he doesn’t regard EY as a humanist.
EY at one point is forced to plaintively protest “But I’m a humanist!” It’s clear they have differing definitions of humanism, and also as to what constitutes “knowability” in epistemology. That’s clear from the beginning.
It also seems clear that Jaron has a different idea of free will than EY, altho’ he doesn’t say so plainly, and he doesn’t use the word “indeterminism.” I think at bottom this is his discomfort with the idea that consciousness “works” or that people can be seriously compared to machines.
He’s also clear that he has a vastly different conception of what an AI is or would be. Finally Jaron just seems to repudiate the use of the term altogether, and laughs with frustration at EY’s facial response.
Other differences Jaron states with more social formatting, because you know he really is a good-natured guy. That interesting remark about mathematic vs. scientific knowledge—he seems to be thinking of himself as an engineer-scientist-applied geek, which is why he keeps stressing all the stuff he’s built.
In contrast, he seems to regard EY as a theorist, even an artist. This is an old debate, the theory guys vs. the experimentalists.
I think such stark examples of communication failure is exactly what drives Robin forward in life. It reminded me of his talk at OSCON07.
@Lake
I wouldn’t say Jaron thinks the discussion is “silly.” He has several rather stark differences with EY, which he makes clear. First, it’s obvious—and he basically comes out and says so—that he doesn’t regard EY as a humanist.
EY at one point is forced to plaintively protest “But I’m a humanist!” It’s clear they have differing definitions of humanism, and also as to what constitutes “knowability” in epistemology. That’s clear from the beginning.
It also seems clear that Jaron has a different idea of free will than EY, altho’ he doesn’t say so plainly, and he doesn’t use the word “indeterminism.” I think at bottom this is his discomfort with the idea that consciousness “works” or that people can be seriously compared to machines.
He’s also clear that he has a vastly different conception of what an AI is or would be. Finally Jaron just seems to repudiate the use of the term altogether, and laughs with frustration at EY’s facial response.
Other differences Jaron states with more social formatting, because you know he really is a good-natured guy. That interesting remark about mathematic vs. scientific knowledge—he seems to be thinking of himself as an engineer-scientist-applied geek, which is why he keeps stressing all the stuff he’s built.
In contrast, he seems to regard EY as a theorist, even an artist. This is an old debate, the theory guys vs. the experimentalists.
I think such stark examples of communication failure is exactly what drives Robin forward in life. It reminded me of his talk at OSCON07.