Honestly looking at the replies, this makes the most sense. I guess this is the answer I was looking for, thank you! I better understand the difference between thought and action.
Just curious, would you put yourself in this same category? If so, do you know why you or others are like this? If so, what goes through your mind because it obviously isn’t rationalization? Is it lack of motivation? How do you live with it?
To be perfectly honest, I was hoping for better responses from lesswrong community, many of which would classify themselves as aspiring rationalists, but these seem only a bit better than the average reddit responses. There’s so much motivated reasoning behind wanting to keep meat, and from what I’ve seen here, veganism doesn’t get brought up here that much because its so devoted to AI and related fields.
Would you happen to know of any places where there are rationalists debating applied ethics? Maybe that’s mainly the type of thing effective altruism is doing.
I seriously suck at converting “what I would prefer to do” into “what I actually do” most of the time.
I have a far-mode preference for being a vegan. If you would choose healthy and tasty vegan food and cook it for me, I would eat it, and probably never look back. But I don’t have time to do the research, and often I don’t even have the time to cook. I generally respect the rule “the one who cooks is the one who makes the decisions”, and my wife is not a vegan, and doesn’t want to become one. (In a parallel Everett branch where I am a single guy, I probably eat vegan Joylent.)
do you know why you or others are like this? If so, what goes through your mind because it obviously isn’t rationalization? Is it lack of motivation? How do you live with it?
Well, I can’t be sure for myself what is truth and what is rationalization, because I suppose it looks the same from inside. But here are my guesses:
Humans are not automatically rational. Human brains sometimes do the most stupid things. For example, it is often difficult to think about unpleasant topics, because the brain mistakes “avoiding the danger” with “avoiding thinking about the danger”. Like, there is a danger in the future you could actually avoid using some strategic thinking, but your brain prefers to simply not think about the coming danger (presumably before some deeper pre-human brain modules don’t fully understand the difference between actual danger and imagined danger). So you can help people to get new insights by simply telling them to sit down, calm down, and think about the topic for 5 minutes without getting distracted by anything else. And it really helps.
Then there is the issue of willpower being… yeah, I know that if I say “a limited resource”, someone will reply with a link saying that the research is discredited. Still, my experience suggests that people who spent a pleasant day are more willing to do some unpleasant but important task in the evening, compared with people who had a busy and frustrating day and how they finally have one hour of free time that they can spend either doing something unpleasant but important, or browsing web. In the past I behaved irrationally for different reasons; now, having a small child, the usual reason is that I don’t have time to actually sit down, think about things, and do them; or more precisely I have an hour or two of such time at late evening when the baby is sleeping, but… I am just too tired mentally, and prone to waste time stupid things without fully realizing what I am doing.
Motivation in my opinion often consists of feeling things in the “near mode”, as opposed to merely knowing them in the “far mode”. Like there is a difference between knowing that exercise can make you fit, and having a friend who regularly exercises and is fit. The latter is more likely to make you exercise, too; probably because the knowledge is no longer abstract. But there is also the social aspect that it is easier to do things that monkeys in your tribe are already doing. In the past, I guess my motivational problem was not having the right tribe. Also, members of your tribe can do the research for you; it’s easier to e.g. copy vegan recipes from your neighbors, especially after you tasted the food and liked it. Then you can talk about where to buy the ingredients (connecting problem solving to social interaction) etc.
Summary:
it’s much easier in a group; but sometimes you simply don’t have the right group;
it’s difficult to be strategic, in general, especially because “being strategic” is something you also need a strategy for.
So people often try alone, fail, give up, get depressed; or invent some rationalization to make the pain of failure go away.
Would you happen to know of any places where there are rationalists debating applied ethics? Maybe that’s mainly the type of thing effective altruism is doing.
I am not a part of the EA community, so I don’t have a first-hand experience how it functions.
people who spent a pleasant day are more willing to do some unpleasant but important task in the evening, compared with people who had a busy and frustrating day and how they finally have one hour of free time that they can spend either doing something unpleasant but important, or browsing web.
This makes a lot of sense. I’m a get-shit-done kinda guy and this could possibly be because I’m also very happy most of the time. I think that I’ve had a bunch of unintentional and intentional success spirals that I’m very grateful for.
The thing about “far mode” vs “near mode” makes a lot of sense when you were talking about exercise as well.
Just on a personal note and from personal (anecdotal; but there is probably non anecdotal evidence as well somewhere) experience, eating healthy and exercise are the types of things to give you more energy and motivation to do more things that give you even more energy. They are like their own success spirals.
Honestly looking at the replies, this makes the most sense. I guess this is the answer I was looking for, thank you! I better understand the difference between thought and action.
Just curious, would you put yourself in this same category? If so, do you know why you or others are like this? If so, what goes through your mind because it obviously isn’t rationalization? Is it lack of motivation? How do you live with it?
To be perfectly honest, I was hoping for better responses from lesswrong community, many of which would classify themselves as aspiring rationalists, but these seem only a bit better than the average reddit responses. There’s so much motivated reasoning behind wanting to keep meat, and from what I’ve seen here, veganism doesn’t get brought up here that much because its so devoted to AI and related fields.
Would you happen to know of any places where there are rationalists debating applied ethics? Maybe that’s mainly the type of thing effective altruism is doing.
I seriously suck at converting “what I would prefer to do” into “what I actually do” most of the time.
I have a far-mode preference for being a vegan. If you would choose healthy and tasty vegan food and cook it for me, I would eat it, and probably never look back. But I don’t have time to do the research, and often I don’t even have the time to cook. I generally respect the rule “the one who cooks is the one who makes the decisions”, and my wife is not a vegan, and doesn’t want to become one. (In a parallel Everett branch where I am a single guy, I probably eat vegan Joylent.)
Well, I can’t be sure for myself what is truth and what is rationalization, because I suppose it looks the same from inside. But here are my guesses:
Humans are not automatically rational. Human brains sometimes do the most stupid things. For example, it is often difficult to think about unpleasant topics, because the brain mistakes “avoiding the danger” with “avoiding thinking about the danger”. Like, there is a danger in the future you could actually avoid using some strategic thinking, but your brain prefers to simply not think about the coming danger (presumably before some deeper pre-human brain modules don’t fully understand the difference between actual danger and imagined danger). So you can help people to get new insights by simply telling them to sit down, calm down, and think about the topic for 5 minutes without getting distracted by anything else. And it really helps.
Then there is the issue of willpower being… yeah, I know that if I say “a limited resource”, someone will reply with a link saying that the research is discredited. Still, my experience suggests that people who spent a pleasant day are more willing to do some unpleasant but important task in the evening, compared with people who had a busy and frustrating day and how they finally have one hour of free time that they can spend either doing something unpleasant but important, or browsing web. In the past I behaved irrationally for different reasons; now, having a small child, the usual reason is that I don’t have time to actually sit down, think about things, and do them; or more precisely I have an hour or two of such time at late evening when the baby is sleeping, but… I am just too tired mentally, and prone to waste time stupid things without fully realizing what I am doing.
Motivation in my opinion often consists of feeling things in the “near mode”, as opposed to merely knowing them in the “far mode”. Like there is a difference between knowing that exercise can make you fit, and having a friend who regularly exercises and is fit. The latter is more likely to make you exercise, too; probably because the knowledge is no longer abstract. But there is also the social aspect that it is easier to do things that monkeys in your tribe are already doing. In the past, I guess my motivational problem was not having the right tribe. Also, members of your tribe can do the research for you; it’s easier to e.g. copy vegan recipes from your neighbors, especially after you tasted the food and liked it. Then you can talk about where to buy the ingredients (connecting problem solving to social interaction) etc.
Summary:
it’s much easier in a group; but sometimes you simply don’t have the right group;
it’s difficult to be strategic, in general, especially because “being strategic” is something you also need a strategy for.
So people often try alone, fail, give up, get depressed; or invent some rationalization to make the pain of failure go away.
I am not a part of the EA community, so I don’t have a first-hand experience how it functions.
This makes a lot of sense. I’m a get-shit-done kinda guy and this could possibly be because I’m also very happy most of the time. I think that I’ve had a bunch of unintentional and intentional success spirals that I’m very grateful for.
The thing about “far mode” vs “near mode” makes a lot of sense when you were talking about exercise as well.
Just on a personal note and from personal (anecdotal; but there is probably non anecdotal evidence as well somewhere) experience, eating healthy and exercise are the types of things to give you more energy and motivation to do more things that give you even more energy. They are like their own success spirals.
I appreciate your in depth response, thank you.