Moving to San Francisco has a lot of expenses other than housing expenses, including costs for movers, travel costs (and the costs of moving back if you fail), costs to stop and start utilities, storage costs to store your possessions for 9 weeks if you live in the office, and the excess everyday costs that come from living in an area where everything is expensive. It’s also a significant disruption to your social life (which could itself decrease your chances of finding a job, and is a cost even if it doesn’t.)
I think this falls into the category of not assuming everyone talks like a LW-er.
Someone who has moved in the past or known someone who has moved might not remember (at least without prompting) each of the individual items which make moving cost. They may just retain a generalized memory that moving is something to be avoided without a good reason.
But guess what? When it comes to making decisions that should take into account the cost of moving, remembering “moving should be avoided without a good reason” will, if their criteria for “good reason” are well-calibrated, lead to exactly the same conclusion as having a shopping list of moving costs in their mind and knowing that the movers are $500 and the loss of social links is worth 1000 utilons etc. even if they can’t articulate any numbers or any specific disadvantages of moving. Just because the people didn’t actually cite those reasons, and wouldn’t be able to cite those reasons, doesn’t mean that they weren’t in effect rejecting it for those reasons.
And yes, this generalizes to people being unable to articulate reasons to avoid other things that they’ve learned to avoid.
This is an extremely cogent articulation of something I’ve been wanting to articulate for a while (but couldn’t, because I’m the sort of person who just remembers “you shouldn’t move without a good reason). I would strongly encourage you to write a top level post about this.
I guess the takeaway here is that when someone on LessWrong talks about something being an obvious win, I should take it with a grain of salt, and assume a strong prior probability of this person just having very different values from me.
It’s assumed that you go to App Academy with the interest of getting a high paying job without paying too much for that opportunity, and being very confident of your success.
It’s also assumed you want to be able to program, and would imagine it to be fun in the future, if it is not already.
Humans acclimate to conditions relatively quickly.
It’s relatively easy to improve your living conditions with earplugs, night eyewear, and a mattress cover.
Having people around you to debug when you are too exhausted to is a significant boon for progression in programming skill.
That said, it’s understandable if your values differ.
That name highly suggests “I actually called myself a troll right in my username and those idiots at LW didn’t even realize I’m a troll when it’s right there in front of them in black and white”.
They let you live at the office. I spent less than $10 a day. Good point though.
Moving to San Francisco has a lot of expenses other than housing expenses, including costs for movers, travel costs (and the costs of moving back if you fail), costs to stop and start utilities, storage costs to store your possessions for 9 weeks if you live in the office, and the excess everyday costs that come from living in an area where everything is expensive. It’s also a significant disruption to your social life (which could itself decrease your chances of finding a job, and is a cost even if it doesn’t.)
You make a good point. But none of the people I’ve discussed this with who didn’t want to do App Academy cite those reasons.
I think this falls into the category of not assuming everyone talks like a LW-er.
Someone who has moved in the past or known someone who has moved might not remember (at least without prompting) each of the individual items which make moving cost. They may just retain a generalized memory that moving is something to be avoided without a good reason.
But guess what? When it comes to making decisions that should take into account the cost of moving, remembering “moving should be avoided without a good reason” will, if their criteria for “good reason” are well-calibrated, lead to exactly the same conclusion as having a shopping list of moving costs in their mind and knowing that the movers are $500 and the loss of social links is worth 1000 utilons etc. even if they can’t articulate any numbers or any specific disadvantages of moving. Just because the people didn’t actually cite those reasons, and wouldn’t be able to cite those reasons, doesn’t mean that they weren’t in effect rejecting it for those reasons.
And yes, this generalizes to people being unable to articulate reasons to avoid other things that they’ve learned to avoid.
This is an extremely cogent articulation of something I’ve been wanting to articulate for a while (but couldn’t, because I’m the sort of person who just remembers “you shouldn’t move without a good reason). I would strongly encourage you to write a top level post about this.
… huh. Could you elaborate on this, please? How’s that work? Do they have actual housing? What is living at the office like?
They don’t have actual housing.
There are three rooms and one open space to put beds / storage in.
80%+ of beds are air mattresses people bought at Target.
Living at the office means you have to sign up at a nearby gym if you wish to shower.
It also means no privacy.
The showers in the nearest gym occasionally turn to cold water. (about 1 in 15 times)
The nearest gym is ~7 mins away walking and costs $130 for three months membership.
There are no housing costs.
Lights typically go off at 11 pm − 12 am
Residents have to wash dishes and take out the trash, and generally pick up after themselves.
There are ~15 residents per active cohort.
Food costs are ~$10 / day if you eat out for lunch and dinner, and ~$4 / day if you make food.
Each sleeping space is ~20 square meters. (there are four)
If you sleep in the last sleeping space, you have to move your shit during the day.
Thank you for the info.
I guess the takeaway here is that when someone on LessWrong talks about something being an obvious win, I should take it with a grain of salt, and assume a strong prior probability of this person just having very different values from me.
Possible things to consider are:
It’s assumed that you go to App Academy with the interest of getting a high paying job without paying too much for that opportunity, and being very confident of your success.
It’s also assumed you want to be able to program, and would imagine it to be fun in the future, if it is not already.
Humans acclimate to conditions relatively quickly.
It’s relatively easy to improve your living conditions with earplugs, night eyewear, and a mattress cover.
Having people around you to debug when you are too exhausted to is a significant boon for progression in programming skill.
That said, it’s understandable if your values differ.
May I ask why your name is “troll”?
That name highly suggests “I actually called myself a troll right in my username and those idiots at LW didn’t even realize I’m a troll when it’s right there in front of them in black and white”.