thanks, the consideration about the river is interesting. The reason i picked it is because i am trying to provide a non computer medium to explain implications of computers being conscious, in particular the fact that the whole mechanism can be laid down in a single direction in space. I could have picked a set of marbles running down pipes instead, but that would be less intuitive to those that have never seen a computer implemented with marbles. I am not sure which alternative would be best.
then just a clarification on symbols. symbols would not be the source of moment of consciousness. symbols would just be a syntactical constructs independent from consciousness, which can be manipulated both by some conscious beings such as humans and by computers. For example, a sheep is very clearly conscious, but if it does uses symbols, they are very simple symbols to keep track of geography, other sheep and stuff that is important for its survival, it is not a turing complete machine. in that view it is not a issue that symbols attach to any substrate, because they are unrelated to consciousness and simply muddle the water by introducing the ability of self referencing. The substrate independence of symbols does not extend to consciousness, because in that view it is the conscious mind that generates symbols not the other way around.
I lack the knowledge to express the following idea with the right words so forgive the ugly way of saying this: it is my understanding that to some degree one could even claim that the objective of buddhism (or at least zen buddhism) is to break the self referencing loop arising from symbols, since symbols are a prerequisite for self awareness and thus negative emotions. Without symbols one would be conscious and unable to worry about itself.
thanks, the consideration about the river is interesting. The reason i picked it is because i am trying to provide a non computer medium to explain implications of computers being conscious, in particular the fact that the whole mechanism can be laid down in a single direction in space. I could have picked a set of marbles running down pipes instead, but that would be less intuitive to those that have never seen a computer implemented with marbles. I am not sure which alternative would be best.
then just a clarification on symbols. symbols would not be the source of moment of consciousness. symbols would just be a syntactical constructs independent from consciousness, which can be manipulated both by some conscious beings such as humans and by computers. For example, a sheep is very clearly conscious, but if it does uses symbols, they are very simple symbols to keep track of geography, other sheep and stuff that is important for its survival, it is not a turing complete machine. in that view it is not a issue that symbols attach to any substrate, because they are unrelated to consciousness and simply muddle the water by introducing the ability of self referencing. The substrate independence of symbols does not extend to consciousness, because in that view it is the conscious mind that generates symbols not the other way around.
I lack the knowledge to express the following idea with the right words so forgive the ugly way of saying this: it is my understanding that to some degree one could even claim that the objective of buddhism (or at least zen buddhism) is to break the self referencing loop arising from symbols, since symbols are a prerequisite for self awareness and thus negative emotions. Without symbols one would be conscious and unable to worry about itself.