Here’s a differently categorised concept that you might like: the colour blue. English has just one basic colour term than encompasses everything from dark blue to light blue (obviously, we can distinguish them by adding descriptors like dark and light, but still fall under blue). Russian has the separate basic colour terms sinii (dark blue) and goluboi (light blue). There’s a neat paper in which the analogous distinction in Greek is shown to affect Greek speakers’ perception of colours in comparison to English speakers on a pre-conscious level (measured using EEG), so your language-map really can affect your perception of the territory, even when language isn’t directly involved.
Interestingly, most of the arguments against language influencing thought that I’ve seen wind up showing the grammar doesn’t influence thought. Basically the biggest effect language has on thought is via vocabulary, which must be really disappointing news to all the grammar nerds obsessing over the perfect grammar to give their conlang.
Yes, this is true. Consensus is largely that language can certainly influence thought in language-specific domains, and that it can influence aspects of cognition in other domains, but only to the extent of shifting probabilities and defaults around—not to the extent of controlling how speakers think or preventing some types of thought according to languages spoken.
Most “grammar nerds” I know are linguists, who think this is neat because they’re more interested in how language works on a more fundamental level than individual grammars (though of course those are interesting too). I guess it’s possible that conlang types have the opposite view! I was just amused by the distinction between what we think of when thinking “grammar nerd”.
Here’s a differently categorised concept that you might like: the colour blue. English has just one basic colour term than encompasses everything from dark blue to light blue (obviously, we can distinguish them by adding descriptors like dark and light, but still fall under blue). Russian has the separate basic colour terms sinii (dark blue) and goluboi (light blue). There’s a neat paper in which the analogous distinction in Greek is shown to affect Greek speakers’ perception of colours in comparison to English speakers on a pre-conscious level (measured using EEG), so your language-map really can affect your perception of the territory, even when language isn’t directly involved.
Interestingly, most of the arguments against language influencing thought that I’ve seen wind up showing the grammar doesn’t influence thought. Basically the biggest effect language has on thought is via vocabulary, which must be really disappointing news to all the grammar nerds obsessing over the perfect grammar to give their conlang.
Yes, this is true. Consensus is largely that language can certainly influence thought in language-specific domains, and that it can influence aspects of cognition in other domains, but only to the extent of shifting probabilities and defaults around—not to the extent of controlling how speakers think or preventing some types of thought according to languages spoken.
Most “grammar nerds” I know are linguists, who think this is neat because they’re more interested in how language works on a more fundamental level than individual grammars (though of course those are interesting too). I guess it’s possible that conlang types have the opposite view! I was just amused by the distinction between what we think of when thinking “grammar nerd”.
I was thinking of the people involved in things like lojban. Who were you thinking of?
Academic linguists. (I am one—or, a psycholinguist, anyway.)