Does America’s health care system have a bias against incels?
Today I went to get my first physical in years now that I have Obamacare, and during the interview with the nurse practitioner, when she got to the questions about my marital status and whether I have any children, I just went straight to the point about my adult virginity, along with providing some context about how I wasted my time “dating” earlier in life because I could never close the deal with a woman. Otherwise she might assume that I had gone to prison for 30 years or something ridiculous like that to explain what kept me away from women for so long. (A woman actually asked me one time if I had spent decades in prison to account for my lack of sexual experience.)
And this nurse then started arguing with me about not giving up on finding sexual relationships – at my age (55). She sounded like the dating advice scolds that incel bloggers like The Black Pill have written about. This pissed me off, and I may have to find a different health care provider.
People with sexual experience really, really don’t understand the situation of guys like me, even ones with medical training.
So how should I answer questions about my sexual history in a medical context?
I find it odd that gays and promiscuous women have become socially acceptable now, while incels with normal desires have become the freaks, weirdos and expendables. This has turned completely around from what people considered normal sexuality 50 years ago.
Men without families have always been considered expendable. The whole concept of army is built around that. I’m not saying it’s right; I’m just saying it’s old as history.
The new thing is that “having sex” has been completely divorced from “having a family”, so now some stigma (less) is associated with not having a family, and some stigma (more) is associated with not having sex. It makes sense this way, because being unable to attract someone implies being unable to start a family. Again, I’m describing here, not making a moral judgement; I don’t have a problem with people not reproducing.
It sucks to have low status. But it is stupid to needlessly tell strangers “hey, I have low status”.
I don’t believe that I have seen any statement that incels are freaks stronger than your own statement that “otherwise she might assume that I had gone to prison for 30 years”. I’m sure that there are some people who might assume that—or worse—but I would not expect that most people would.
Likewise, when someone overshares about their problems (and if you defined yourself as an ‘involuntary celebrate’, you are framing it as a problem), the default social response is “don’t give up, you can handle it!” whether you’re talking about dandruff or cancer. Her response may not be what you hoped for, but it wasn’t a clear indicator of prejudice.
The increasing visibility of incels in developed countries, especially in Japan, where the numbers of adult male virgins has gotten ridiculous, makes the correspondingly decreasing percentage of sexually experienced men uneasy for some reason. I have to wonder if the unease resembles the effects of mortality salience in terror management theory. We provide empirical evidence that women’s sexual freedom hasn’t resulted in a sexual utopia, despite all the propaganda to that effect going back to the Enlightenment.
I doubt very much that your context was medically relevant. She behaved inappropriately and of course you should change providers if you can and prefer to, but there was no reason to do anything but answer “no” to her questions in the first place, especially if the alternative involved phrases like “close the deal”.
Even more so, because the male nurse might assume I’m gay otherwise.
I’ve noticed some little-studied cognitive biases here, because sexually experienced people tend to force ready-made “explanations” on male incels that make them comfortable, instead of trying to study and understand incel as its own phenomenon. The canned explanations lead to bad conclusions and useless advice for men like me. How would seeing a prostitute teach me how to get into sexual relationships? Men who get their sexual experience exclusively from prostitutes can remain as inept at dating as incels. You usually can’t just pick up a girl at the coffee shop with your “day game” and expect her to do the whore tricks you have become accustomed to with escorts.
That also shows why I consider sexbots a really stupid and dangerous notion. Sexbots could just increase the proportions of socially retarded men who have no clue how to deal with real women.
Otherwise she might assume that I had gone to prison for 30 years or something ridiculous like that
the male nurse might assume I’m gay otherwise
What you need from the nurse is her set of skills. Her personal opinion of you is irrelevant to doing her job. I understand that we may see health professionals as higher-status than us, but they’re actually doing us a service. You don’t need to feel intimidated by an unspoken imagined condemnation.
Does America’s health care system have a bias against incels?
Today I went to get my first physical in years now that I have Obamacare, and during the interview with the nurse practitioner, when she got to the questions about my marital status and whether I have any children, I just went straight to the point about my adult virginity, along with providing some context about how I wasted my time “dating” earlier in life because I could never close the deal with a woman. Otherwise she might assume that I had gone to prison for 30 years or something ridiculous like that to explain what kept me away from women for so long. (A woman actually asked me one time if I had spent decades in prison to account for my lack of sexual experience.)
And this nurse then started arguing with me about not giving up on finding sexual relationships – at my age (55). She sounded like the dating advice scolds that incel bloggers like The Black Pill have written about. This pissed me off, and I may have to find a different health care provider.
People with sexual experience really, really don’t understand the situation of guys like me, even ones with medical training.
Don’t rant to strangers about how incel you are. If you do, don’t be surprised if some of those strangers try to offer you comfort.
So how should I answer questions about my sexual history in a medical context?
I find it odd that gays and promiscuous women have become socially acceptable now, while incels with normal desires have become the freaks, weirdos and expendables. This has turned completely around from what people considered normal sexuality 50 years ago.
Men without families have always been considered expendable. The whole concept of army is built around that. I’m not saying it’s right; I’m just saying it’s old as history.
The new thing is that “having sex” has been completely divorced from “having a family”, so now some stigma (less) is associated with not having a family, and some stigma (more) is associated with not having sex. It makes sense this way, because being unable to attract someone implies being unable to start a family. Again, I’m describing here, not making a moral judgement; I don’t have a problem with people not reproducing.
It sucks to have low status. But it is stupid to needlessly tell strangers “hey, I have low status”.
“No.”
Or if there are looking to be a lot of questions, you can head them off with “no, I’m a virgin”.
I don’t believe that I have seen any statement that incels are freaks stronger than your own statement that “otherwise she might assume that I had gone to prison for 30 years”. I’m sure that there are some people who might assume that—or worse—but I would not expect that most people would.
Likewise, when someone overshares about their problems (and if you defined yourself as an ‘involuntary celebrate’, you are framing it as a problem), the default social response is “don’t give up, you can handle it!” whether you’re talking about dandruff or cancer. Her response may not be what you hoped for, but it wasn’t a clear indicator of prejudice.
The increasing visibility of incels in developed countries, especially in Japan, where the numbers of adult male virgins has gotten ridiculous, makes the correspondingly decreasing percentage of sexually experienced men uneasy for some reason. I have to wonder if the unease resembles the effects of mortality salience in terror management theory. We provide empirical evidence that women’s sexual freedom hasn’t resulted in a sexual utopia, despite all the propaganda to that effect going back to the Enlightenment.
I’m tempted to create a drinking game for every time the Enlightenment gets blamed for whatever somebody thinks is wrong with the world.
I doubt very much that your context was medically relevant. She behaved inappropriately and of course you should change providers if you can and prefer to, but there was no reason to do anything but answer “no” to her questions in the first place, especially if the alternative involved phrases like “close the deal”.
I’m curious. If you had been examined by a male nurse, would you have felt the same need to give an extended explanation?
Even more so, because the male nurse might assume I’m gay otherwise.
I’ve noticed some little-studied cognitive biases here, because sexually experienced people tend to force ready-made “explanations” on male incels that make them comfortable, instead of trying to study and understand incel as its own phenomenon. The canned explanations lead to bad conclusions and useless advice for men like me. How would seeing a prostitute teach me how to get into sexual relationships? Men who get their sexual experience exclusively from prostitutes can remain as inept at dating as incels. You usually can’t just pick up a girl at the coffee shop with your “day game” and expect her to do the whore tricks you have become accustomed to with escorts.
That also shows why I consider sexbots a really stupid and dangerous notion. Sexbots could just increase the proportions of socially retarded men who have no clue how to deal with real women.
What you need from the nurse is her set of skills. Her personal opinion of you is irrelevant to doing her job. I understand that we may see health professionals as higher-status than us, but they’re actually doing us a service. You don’t need to feel intimidated by an unspoken imagined condemnation.
It’s reasonable to assume that any bias which is common in the culture will also show up in how patients are treated.