If the demon thread has two to three participants who know each other, I wonder about the effectiveness of making repair attempts. If one participant says something like “I’m sorry, let me try to say that better,” or “I agree with part of what you’re saying,” or (I don’t know) links to a cat picture or something, does it tend to deescalate the situation? I’m not actually sure but I think it’s worth trying.
I’ve found that certain topics predictably degenerate into demon threads (I had an example, but then reconsidered the wisdom of giving it). On my blog, when I’m writing about a topic tangentially related to one of those topics, I will often put up a commenting note like “no discussion of [TOPIC],” which nips that in the bud.
Another reason demon threads sometimes escalate is that there are antisocial persons like myself who really enjoy participating in demon threads. I am not sure what to do about us in the general case. Ideally there’d be some site where we could all argue with each other about extremely unimportant topics.
If people enjoy demon threads, it may not be strictly true that the ‘Someone is wrong on the internet’ feeling (noticeably) feels bad.
When reading the OP, I thought, “I recognise that feeling, but my main (noticed) ‘someone is wrong on the internet’-response is a positive, inspired motivational one.”
Perhaps these feelings do get jumbled, and distinguishing how much is ‘inspired’ vs ‘this is wrong’ is part of the skill of avoiding demon threads.
I still sense that there’s two different feelings here:
Type 1. Clearly negative – “This can’t stand” or “That person needs to be corrected” or “If other people see that person’s post, they will become wrong too – I need to save them.”
Type 2. Positive(?) –”There’s some interesting ideas to be corrected” or “Wow, this person thinks really differently from me, how did that happen?”
The second type might have shock and incredulity, but the core feels like surprised curiosity.
The first type feels more uncomfortable, as if tribal honour has been breached.
Presumably the exact feelings vary a lot from person to person.
I think the potential bad outcome of the positive version is something like “ah, I can explain this!”, coupled with a misunderstanding of what the other person is about. (i.e. you think you’re making a simple correction, but you’re actually telling them that some deep seated part of their identity is wrong)
For me, fighting this feeling is really hard without a lot of mindfulness about it.
Its interesting to think that one person’s Demon Thread is another person’s playground? It also suggests there may be a secondary “infferential distance” effect going on, but at an emotional response level vs the cognative model.
I’d be curious how you’d describe the enjoyment feeling. I know for me it almost feels like an adrenaline rush when I’m in a heated argument, and it combines with a certain kind of single-minded lucidity that also crops up when I’m in the middle of being in a “flow state”. It’s not really an anger feeling, but a kind of thrill like doing really well in a sport, or excelling in a compettive video game?
An example in the article:
You feel physiological defensiveness or anger—you notice the hairs on the back of your neck or arms standing on end, or a tightness in your chest, or however those emotions manifest in your body.
Is actually what I experience in these states, but I dont feel anger or rage. Its more like Frisson (and I think my eyes dialate too)
Thinking about it, this result may due to being more attuned to my frustraition reflex. I have noticed that if I’m in that frission state and feel frustraited that it expresses itself as anger. But growing up I didn’t pay attention to that transition as much. It wasn’t until I started practicing a form of mindfulness to help with anxiety that I was able to differentiate them. (as a result, the frustration/anger is the point where I’d tune out of the conversation).
I will often put up a commenting note like “no discussion of [TOPIC],” which nips that in the bud.
Yeah—proactive explicit moderation is a pretty useful tool.
Another reason demon threads sometimes escalate is that there are antisocial persons like myself who really enjoy participating in demon threads.
Worth noting that I enjoy participating in demon threads, but I try to be deliberate about when and where I’m doing it, and to try to do it for things that don’t actually matter that much when I want to blow off steam on the internet. (I also try to do them in spaces that are already Basically Hell, so additional demon threads aren’t making things worse)
(Facebook and tumblr occupy a space where they contain people with varying degrees of “bothering at this present moment to have a serious conversation”, so you can sometimes have real conversation and sometimes have Suddenly Demons Everywhere. I don’t know tumblr that well, but on FB there’s usually some subtle clues about whether the particular space you’re in is a “let’s have a cathartic demon thread” place, or a “guys we’re trying to have a real conversation” place.)
If the demon thread has two to three participants who know each other, I wonder about the effectiveness of making repair attempts. If one participant says something like “I’m sorry, let me try to say that better,” or “I agree with part of what you’re saying,” or (I don’t know) links to a cat picture or something, does it tend to deescalate the situation? I’m not actually sure but I think it’s worth trying.
I’ve found that certain topics predictably degenerate into demon threads (I had an example, but then reconsidered the wisdom of giving it). On my blog, when I’m writing about a topic tangentially related to one of those topics, I will often put up a commenting note like “no discussion of [TOPIC],” which nips that in the bud.
Another reason demon threads sometimes escalate is that there are antisocial persons like myself who really enjoy participating in demon threads. I am not sure what to do about us in the general case. Ideally there’d be some site where we could all argue with each other about extremely unimportant topics.
If people enjoy demon threads, it may not be strictly true that the ‘Someone is wrong on the internet’ feeling (noticeably) feels bad.
When reading the OP, I thought, “I recognise that feeling, but my main (noticed) ‘someone is wrong on the internet’-response is a positive, inspired motivational one.”
Perhaps these feelings do get jumbled, and distinguishing how much is ‘inspired’ vs ‘this is wrong’ is part of the skill of avoiding demon threads.
I still sense that there’s two different feelings here:
Type 1. Clearly negative – “This can’t stand” or “That person needs to be corrected” or “If other people see that person’s post, they will become wrong too – I need to save them.”
Type 2. Positive(?) –”There’s some interesting ideas to be corrected” or “Wow, this person thinks really differently from me, how did that happen?”
The second type might have shock and incredulity, but the core feels like surprised curiosity.
The first type feels more uncomfortable, as if tribal honour has been breached.
Presumably the exact feelings vary a lot from person to person.
I think the potential bad outcome of the positive version is something like “ah, I can explain this!”, coupled with a misunderstanding of what the other person is about. (i.e. you think you’re making a simple correction, but you’re actually telling them that some deep seated part of their identity is wrong)
For me, fighting this feeling is really hard without a lot of mindfulness about it.
Its interesting to think that one person’s Demon Thread is another person’s playground? It also suggests there may be a secondary “infferential distance” effect going on, but at an emotional response level vs the cognative model.
I’d be curious how you’d describe the enjoyment feeling. I know for me it almost feels like an adrenaline rush when I’m in a heated argument, and it combines with a certain kind of single-minded lucidity that also crops up when I’m in the middle of being in a “flow state”. It’s not really an anger feeling, but a kind of thrill like doing really well in a sport, or excelling in a compettive video game?
An example in the article:
Is actually what I experience in these states, but I dont feel anger or rage. Its more like Frisson (and I think my eyes dialate too)
Thinking about it, this result may due to being more attuned to my frustraition reflex. I have noticed that if I’m in that frission state and feel frustraited that it expresses itself as anger. But growing up I didn’t pay attention to that transition as much. It wasn’t until I started practicing a form of mindfulness to help with anxiety that I was able to differentiate them. (as a result, the frustration/anger is the point where I’d tune out of the conversation).
I think you can, but difficulty scales with how involved/explosive the thread currently is.
(also, thanks for the repair article)
Yeah—proactive explicit moderation is a pretty useful tool.
Worth noting that I enjoy participating in demon threads, but I try to be deliberate about when and where I’m doing it, and to try to do it for things that don’t actually matter that much when I want to blow off steam on the internet. (I also try to do them in spaces that are already Basically Hell, so additional demon threads aren’t making things worse)
(Facebook and tumblr occupy a space where they contain people with varying degrees of “bothering at this present moment to have a serious conversation”, so you can sometimes have real conversation and sometimes have Suddenly Demons Everywhere. I don’t know tumblr that well, but on FB there’s usually some subtle clues about whether the particular space you’re in is a “let’s have a cathartic demon thread” place, or a “guys we’re trying to have a real conversation” place.)