A bit of an aside, but for me the reference to “If” is a turn off. I read it as promoting a fairly-arbitrary code of stoicism rather than effectiveness. The main message I get is keep cool, don’t complain, don’t show that you’re affected by the world, and now you’ve achieved your goal, which is apparently was to live up to Imperial Britain’s ideal of masculinity.
I also see it as a recipe for disaster—don’t learn how to guide and train your elephant; just push it around through brute force and your indefatigable will to hold on. It does have a message of continuing to work effectively even in bad circumstances, but for me that feels incidental to the poem’s emotional content. I.E. Kipling probably thought that suffering are failure are innately good things. Someone who takes suffering and failure well but never meets their goals is more of a man than someone who consistently meets goals without tragic hardship, or meets them despite expressing their despair during setbacks.
A bit of an aside, but for me the reference to “If” is a turn off. I read it as promoting a fairly-arbitrary code of stoicism rather than effectiveness. The main message I get is keep cool, don’t complain, don’t show that you’re affected by the world, and now you’ve achieved your goal,
I agree that the poem is about stoicism, but have a very different take on what stoicism is. Real stoicism is about training the elephant to be less afraid and more stable and thereby accomplish more. For example, the standard stoic meditation technique of thinking about the worst and scariest possible outcomes you could face will gradually chip away at instinctive fear responses and allow one to think in a more level headed way. Similarly, taking cold showers and deconditioning the flinch response (which to some extent also allows one not to flinch away from thoughts.)
Of course, all of these real stoic training techniques are challengingly unpleasant. It’s much easier to be a poser-stoic who explicitly optimizes for how stoic-looking of a face they put forward, by keeping cool, not complaining, and not emoting, rather than putting in all the hard work required to train the elephant and become a real stoic. This is, as you say, a recipe for disaster if pushed too hard. Most people out there who call themselves stoics are poser-stoics, just as Sturgeon’s Law would demand. After reading the article you linked to I now have the same oppinion of the kind of stoicism the Victorian school system demanded.
Huh. I read IF at a time when I was trying to be a more effective person, and found it really inspirational and exactly on note. I don’t know what Kipling’s precise intent was but don’t care that much.
A bit of an aside, but for me the reference to “If” is a turn off. I read it as promoting a fairly-arbitrary code of stoicism rather than effectiveness. The main message I get is keep cool, don’t complain, don’t show that you’re affected by the world, and now you’ve achieved your goal, which is apparently was to live up to Imperial Britain’s ideal of masculinity.
I also see it as a recipe for disaster—don’t learn how to guide and train your elephant; just push it around through brute force and your indefatigable will to hold on. It does have a message of continuing to work effectively even in bad circumstances, but for me that feels incidental to the poem’s emotional content. I.E. Kipling probably thought that suffering are failure are innately good things. Someone who takes suffering and failure well but never meets their goals is more of a man than someone who consistently meets goals without tragic hardship, or meets them despite expressing their despair during setbacks.
Note: I heard the poem first a long time ago, but I didn’t originally read it this way. I saw it differently after reading this: http://www.quora.com/Poems/What-is-your-view-on-the-Poem-IF-by-Rudyard-Kipling/answer/Marcus-Geduld
I agree that the poem is about stoicism, but have a very different take on what stoicism is. Real stoicism is about training the elephant to be less afraid and more stable and thereby accomplish more. For example, the standard stoic meditation technique of thinking about the worst and scariest possible outcomes you could face will gradually chip away at instinctive fear responses and allow one to think in a more level headed way. Similarly, taking cold showers and deconditioning the flinch response (which to some extent also allows one not to flinch away from thoughts.)
Of course, all of these real stoic training techniques are challengingly unpleasant. It’s much easier to be a poser-stoic who explicitly optimizes for how stoic-looking of a face they put forward, by keeping cool, not complaining, and not emoting, rather than putting in all the hard work required to train the elephant and become a real stoic. This is, as you say, a recipe for disaster if pushed too hard. Most people out there who call themselves stoics are poser-stoics, just as Sturgeon’s Law would demand. After reading the article you linked to I now have the same oppinion of the kind of stoicism the Victorian school system demanded.
Huh. I read IF at a time when I was trying to be a more effective person, and found it really inspirational and exactly on note. I don’t know what Kipling’s precise intent was but don’t care that much.
Your mileage may vary, I guess.