If my depression does explain my failures, then I really am pretty much destined to fail in the future since this appears to be treatment-resistant depression and as I described, I’ve run out of treatment options. Thanks anyway.
I agree with Lumifer that your priority should be treating your depression. Also, consider that your depression likely is making you pessimistic about your prognosis.
For about 5 or 6 years I had a treatment resistant fungal infection. I had to try 6 different antifungals until I found one that had some effect, and I tweaked the dosage and duration for most of those to try to make them work better. The last medication I tried didn’t work completely the first time, so I increased the dosage and duration. That totally wiped out the fungus. If you asked me if I ever thought I’d get rid of the fungal infection 6 months before I finished treatment, I’d have said no.
Knowing which antifungal medications didn’t work actually was the key to figuring out what did work. My doctor selected an antifungal medication which used a mechanism different from that of any other treatment I tried. I suggest that you look at which mechanisms the drugs that you have tried use and see what other options exist. There are many more depression treating drugs than antifungal drugs, and many more mechanisms.
You mentioned a few other non-pharmaceutical options you’ve considered. If you haven’t already considered it, I might suggest exercise. There seems to be reasonable evidence that exercise helps in depression. Anecdotally, I’ve read of several people who have claimed that running in particular cured their depression when nothing else provided much help. (I’ve suggested this to others before, and they generally think “That’ll make me feel worse!” People generally seem to discount the idea that as they get into better shape, exercise will become easier, enjoyable even.)
consider that your depression likely is making you pessimistic about your prognosis.
Yes, I’ve heard this before, but I don’t see why any reasonable, non-depressed person would be pessimistic about it. As I’ve said, it’s not like this is the first time I’ve ever been depressed in my life and I’m irrationally predicting that I can’t be cured. And I’ve heard stories like yours before: people who were depressed until they found the right combination of medications. But in my situation, my psychiatrists have gone back and forth between different combinations and then right back around to the ones I already tried. Changing them up YET AGAIN just feels like shuffling the deck chairs around on the Titanic (but of course I’d say that). If there are tons more different medications to try as you assert, none of my psychiatrists seem to know about it.
To be fully clear, anti-depressants have had an effect on me. I definitely don’t feel unbearably miserable and anxious as I do without them. They just haven’t gotten me to 100%.
I GUESS I could ask my psychiatrist to try yet another combination I haven’t tried before. But it just sounds like a nuisance, frankly.
As for exercise, yes, I’ve heard that countless times. I used to be much more active, and don’t recall it ever having a palpable effect on my mood. Nowadays, it’s just not gonna happen. I’ve tried to get myself to exercise, with some occasional success, but with my work schedule, when it finally comes time to do it, I flatly refuse. You could say, “you just gotta find something you enjoy!!” But I’m depressed! I enjoy nothing! (/sarcasm) I guess I could make sure to make time for hiking (probably what I enjoy the most) or get a membership at an expensive gym near work (which would be the most convenient arrangement for me) but the fact that exercise never particularly had an effect on me makes me not particularly motivated to do so.
If there are tons more different medications to try as you assert, none of my psychiatrists seem to know about it.
Wikipedia lists many. I count 21 categories alone. I would suggest reading at least a bit about how these drugs work to get some indication of what could work better. Then, you can go to your psychiatrist and discuss what you’ve learned. Something outside of their standard line of treatment may be unfamiliar to them, but it may suit you better.
For my last antifungal treatment, I specifically asked for something different from what I had used before and I provided a list of antifungal meds I tried, all of which were fairly standard. My doctor spent a few minutes doing some searches on their computer and came back with what ultimately worked.
Huh, interesting. Up-managing one’s doctor seems frowned upon in our society—since it usually comes in the form of asking one’s doctor for medications mentioned in commercials—but obviously your approach seems much more valid. Kind of irritating, though, that doctors don’t appear to really be doing their job. :P
The exchange here has made me realize that I’ve actually been skipping my meds too often. Heh.… :\ So if I simply tighten that up, I will effectively increase my dosage. But if that doesn’t prove to be enough, I’ll go the route you’ve suggested. Thanks! :)
SSRIs, for example, aren’t supposed to do anything more than make you feel not completely miserable and/or freaked-out all the time. They are generally known to not actually make you happy and to not increase one’s capability for enjoyment. If you are on one, and if that’s a problem, you might actually want to look at something more stimulant-like, i.e. Bupropion. (There isn’t really another antidepressant that does this, and it seems unlikely you’ll manage to convince your psychiatrist to prescribe e.g. amphetamines for depression, even though they can work.)
And then there is, of course, all sorts of older and “dirtier” stuff, with MAOI’s probably being something of a last resort.
Yeah, that accurately describes their effect on me.
I used to be on Buproprion, but it had unpleasant physical effects on me (i.e. heart racing/pounding, which makes sense, given that it’s stimulant-like) without any noticeable mood effects. I was quite disappointed, since a friend of mine said he practically had a manic episode on it. However, I took it conjunction with an SNRI, so maybe that wouldn’t have happened if I’d just taken it on its own.… Idk.
I’m actually surprised my psychiatrist hasn’t recommended an MAOI to me in that case, since she freaks the hell out when I say I’m suicidal, and I’ve done so twice. I’ll put MAOIs at the bottom of my aforementioned new to-do list. :)
As far as depression goes curetogether has a list of things that it’s users found helpful.
I don’t think gyms are ideal. Going to the gym feels like work. On the other hand playing a team sport or dancing doesn’t. At best a weekly course that happens at a specific time where you attend regularly.
You should check out my response to one of the other comments—I think it’s even more “yes, but”! I kind of see what you mean, but it sounds to me like just a way of saying “believe x or else” instead of giving an actual argument.
However, the ultimate conclusion is, I guess, just getting back on the horse and doing whatever I can to treat the dysthymia. I’m just like… ugh. :P But that’s not very rational.
If my depression does explain my failures, then I really am pretty much destined to fail in the future since this appears to be treatment-resistant depression and as I described, I’ve run out of treatment options. Thanks anyway.
I agree with Lumifer that your priority should be treating your depression. Also, consider that your depression likely is making you pessimistic about your prognosis.
For about 5 or 6 years I had a treatment resistant fungal infection. I had to try 6 different antifungals until I found one that had some effect, and I tweaked the dosage and duration for most of those to try to make them work better. The last medication I tried didn’t work completely the first time, so I increased the dosage and duration. That totally wiped out the fungus. If you asked me if I ever thought I’d get rid of the fungal infection 6 months before I finished treatment, I’d have said no.
Knowing which antifungal medications didn’t work actually was the key to figuring out what did work. My doctor selected an antifungal medication which used a mechanism different from that of any other treatment I tried. I suggest that you look at which mechanisms the drugs that you have tried use and see what other options exist. There are many more depression treating drugs than antifungal drugs, and many more mechanisms.
You mentioned a few other non-pharmaceutical options you’ve considered. If you haven’t already considered it, I might suggest exercise. There seems to be reasonable evidence that exercise helps in depression. Anecdotally, I’ve read of several people who have claimed that running in particular cured their depression when nothing else provided much help. (I’ve suggested this to others before, and they generally think “That’ll make me feel worse!” People generally seem to discount the idea that as they get into better shape, exercise will become easier, enjoyable even.)
Yes, I’ve heard this before, but I don’t see why any reasonable, non-depressed person would be pessimistic about it. As I’ve said, it’s not like this is the first time I’ve ever been depressed in my life and I’m irrationally predicting that I can’t be cured. And I’ve heard stories like yours before: people who were depressed until they found the right combination of medications. But in my situation, my psychiatrists have gone back and forth between different combinations and then right back around to the ones I already tried. Changing them up YET AGAIN just feels like shuffling the deck chairs around on the Titanic (but of course I’d say that). If there are tons more different medications to try as you assert, none of my psychiatrists seem to know about it.
To be fully clear, anti-depressants have had an effect on me. I definitely don’t feel unbearably miserable and anxious as I do without them. They just haven’t gotten me to 100%.
I GUESS I could ask my psychiatrist to try yet another combination I haven’t tried before. But it just sounds like a nuisance, frankly.
As for exercise, yes, I’ve heard that countless times. I used to be much more active, and don’t recall it ever having a palpable effect on my mood. Nowadays, it’s just not gonna happen. I’ve tried to get myself to exercise, with some occasional success, but with my work schedule, when it finally comes time to do it, I flatly refuse. You could say, “you just gotta find something you enjoy!!” But I’m depressed! I enjoy nothing! (/sarcasm) I guess I could make sure to make time for hiking (probably what I enjoy the most) or get a membership at an expensive gym near work (which would be the most convenient arrangement for me) but the fact that exercise never particularly had an effect on me makes me not particularly motivated to do so.
Wikipedia lists many. I count 21 categories alone. I would suggest reading at least a bit about how these drugs work to get some indication of what could work better. Then, you can go to your psychiatrist and discuss what you’ve learned. Something outside of their standard line of treatment may be unfamiliar to them, but it may suit you better.
For my last antifungal treatment, I specifically asked for something different from what I had used before and I provided a list of antifungal meds I tried, all of which were fairly standard. My doctor spent a few minutes doing some searches on their computer and came back with what ultimately worked.
Huh, interesting. Up-managing one’s doctor seems frowned upon in our society—since it usually comes in the form of asking one’s doctor for medications mentioned in commercials—but obviously your approach seems much more valid. Kind of irritating, though, that doctors don’t appear to really be doing their job. :P
The exchange here has made me realize that I’ve actually been skipping my meds too often. Heh.… :\ So if I simply tighten that up, I will effectively increase my dosage. But if that doesn’t prove to be enough, I’ll go the route you’ve suggested. Thanks! :)
SSRIs, for example, aren’t supposed to do anything more than make you feel not completely miserable and/or freaked-out all the time. They are generally known to not actually make you happy and to not increase one’s capability for enjoyment. If you are on one, and if that’s a problem, you might actually want to look at something more stimulant-like, i.e. Bupropion. (There isn’t really another antidepressant that does this, and it seems unlikely you’ll manage to convince your psychiatrist to prescribe e.g. amphetamines for depression, even though they can work.)
And then there is, of course, all sorts of older and “dirtier” stuff, with MAOI’s probably being something of a last resort.
Yeah, that accurately describes their effect on me.
I used to be on Buproprion, but it had unpleasant physical effects on me (i.e. heart racing/pounding, which makes sense, given that it’s stimulant-like) without any noticeable mood effects. I was quite disappointed, since a friend of mine said he practically had a manic episode on it. However, I took it conjunction with an SNRI, so maybe that wouldn’t have happened if I’d just taken it on its own.… Idk.
I’m actually surprised my psychiatrist hasn’t recommended an MAOI to me in that case, since she freaks the hell out when I say I’m suicidal, and I’ve done so twice. I’ll put MAOIs at the bottom of my aforementioned new to-do list. :)
As far as depression goes curetogether has a list of things that it’s users found helpful.
I don’t think gyms are ideal. Going to the gym feels like work. On the other hand playing a team sport or dancing doesn’t. At best a weekly course that happens at a specific time where you attend regularly.
It seems you’re playing a “Yes, but” game. I am sure you can win it, do you really want to?
Yes. :)
But...
;-)
You should check out my response to one of the other comments—I think it’s even more “yes, but”! I kind of see what you mean, but it sounds to me like just a way of saying “believe x or else” instead of giving an actual argument.
However, the ultimate conclusion is, I guess, just getting back on the horse and doing whatever I can to treat the dysthymia. I’m just like… ugh. :P But that’s not very rational.
Thanks for the feedback.