I’ve been thinking about whether it’s a good idea to quit porn (not masturbation, just porn). Does anyone have anything to add to the below?
Reasons not to quit:
It’s difficult, which may cause stress and willpower depletion, though these effects would probably only be temporary.
It is pleasurable (i.e. valued just as a “fun” activity. This should be compared to alternative pleasurable activities, though, because any “porn time” can be replaced with “other fun things time”).
Reasons to quit:
It’s a superstimulus, and might interfere with the brain’s reward system in bad ways. http://yourbrainonporn.com/ has some evidence, though nothing as strong as, say, an RCT studying the effects of quitting porn.
Time. Any time spent viewing porn is time that could be spent doing other things (not necessarily “working,” but other relaxing/pleasurable activities which could have greater advantages. For example, reading fiction has the advantage that you can later talk about what you read with other people).
Possibility of addiction: I definitely don’t think I have a porn addiction, and I doubt I’m likely to progress to one, but obviously it’s possible anyway, and my own inside-view on that isn’t very safe to go on. From wikipedia:
A study found that 17% of people who viewed pornography on the Internet met criteria for problematic[clarification needed] sexual compulsivity.[9] A survey found that 20–60% of a sample of college-age males who use pornography found it to be problematic.[10] Research on Internet addiction disorder indicates rates may range from 1.5 to 8.2% in Europeans and Americans.[11] Internet pornography users are included in Internet users, and Internet pornography has been shown to be the Internet activity most likely to lead to compulsive disorders.[12]
I haven’t viewed porn for about 2 weeks and it hasn’t actually been that difficult, so I’m trying to decide whether I should just commit to quitting it completely. Right now I’m leaning toward quitting—viewing porn might be harmful, and it’s almost certainly not beneficial, so there’s a higher expected value from quitting for anybody who doesn’t assign much higher utility to the fun from porn than the fun from alternative activities.
For completeness, I should also mention the “nofap” movement. The anecdotes on there are the same sort of things you’d find when reading about homeopathy or juice fasts, though, so those can be mostly ignored.
1 and 2 apply to entertainment in general. There’s something to be said for cutting back on TV, aimless internet browsing, etc., but it makes more sense to focus on cutting back total time than eliminating one particular form of entertainment in particular.
As for 3, I’m not familiar with that particular study, but in my experience studies of “porn addiction” or “sex addiction” tend to rely on dubious definitions of “addiction.” I’d advise against taking worries of porn addiction any more seriously than worries of “internet addiction” or “social media addiction” or “TV addiction” or whatever.
I’d advise against taking worries of porn addiction any more seriously than worries of “internet addiction” or “social media addiction”
This sentence sounds like it’s intended to communicate “porn addiction shouldn’t be taken very seriously”. But speaking as someone who is hardly ever capable of staying offline even for a day despite huge increases in well-being whenever he is successful at it, to say nothing about the countless of days ruined due to getting stuck on social media, these examples make it sound like you were saying that porn addiction was an immensely big risk that was worth taking very seriously indeed.
I actually had what you’ve said about social media addiction in mind when I wrote that sentence. So like, if you’re losing entire days to porn, yeah, you have a problem. But if your experience is more along the lines of “have trouble not spending at least 15 minutes on porn each day,” I wouldn’t be more worried about that than “have trouble not spending at least 15 minutes on social media each day.”
Maybe 1 and 2 apply to entertainment in general, but I think there are a few things that make porn different:
I suspect porn is in some way “more” of a superstimulus than most other forms of entertainment. At least for me, it seems to tap into a more visceral response. I don’t know of any research about this, but that doesn’t mean I should ignore that intuition.
Many other forms of entertainment have plausible other benefits (albeit often minor). Reading fiction could plausibly improve your language ability and empathy. Gaming often has a social component or a skill-building component (even if that skill doesn’t transfer to anything else or only transfers to other games). TV and movies may have some similar benefits to reading. All of them have the advantage of giving you topics to discuss with other people, whereas socially discussing the last porn you watched is usually not a good idea.
In addition, “quit porn” may be an easier rule to follow than “cut back on superstimuli (but don’t quit any of them entirely).”
If you’re implying that my bottom line is already written, I don’t think that’s the case. Both of the points I made in response to ChrisHallquist were things that I had already thought of before he posted, so I wasn’t just searching for a rebuttal to his points.
If you’re implying that the arguments I’ve made seem to have already convinced me to quit...well, yes. That’s why I’m posting here: to find out whether there’s anything I’m missing.
How about you make specific predictions (written) of what will happen if you abstain for a specific number of months, then abstain for the given number of months, and then evaluate the original predictions?
For things like “clarity of mind”, find some way of measuring it. For things like “motivation” instead focus on what exactly you will be motivated to do.
Then compare with the same amount of time with porn.
It’s still very little data, but better than no data at all.
Less meta—I think it pretty much depends on what you replace it with. Which can be both someting better or something worse, and you probably don’t know the exact answer unless you try.
Porn gets me off quicker. That is it’s utility. When I’m self-pleasuring for enjoyment, I don’t watch it, because it’s more fun to use my imagination. However, when I’m sexually frustrated and can’t focus on what I want to focus on, pornography allows me to cut masturbation time down from 10-20 minutes to under 5. This is a great time saver, and allows me to spend my time more productively.
It is superstimulation, and if you come to rely on it to come or develop an addiction (arguably the same thing), then you’ll have a problem. But if it isn’t having any negative affect on your life, then why drop it?
I view claims of a sudden increase in mental energy or clarity of thought as… not red flags, exactly, but the sort of thing people tend to report with any intervention including placebo.
I’ve been thinking about whether it’s a good idea to quit porn (not masturbation, just porn). Does anyone have anything to add to the below?
Reasons not to quit:
It’s difficult, which may cause stress and willpower depletion, though these effects would probably only be temporary.
It is pleasurable (i.e. valued just as a “fun” activity. This should be compared to alternative pleasurable activities, though, because any “porn time” can be replaced with “other fun things time”).
Reasons to quit:
It’s a superstimulus, and might interfere with the brain’s reward system in bad ways. http://yourbrainonporn.com/ has some evidence, though nothing as strong as, say, an RCT studying the effects of quitting porn.
Time. Any time spent viewing porn is time that could be spent doing other things (not necessarily “working,” but other relaxing/pleasurable activities which could have greater advantages. For example, reading fiction has the advantage that you can later talk about what you read with other people).
Possibility of addiction: I definitely don’t think I have a porn addiction, and I doubt I’m likely to progress to one, but obviously it’s possible anyway, and my own inside-view on that isn’t very safe to go on. From wikipedia:
I haven’t viewed porn for about 2 weeks and it hasn’t actually been that difficult, so I’m trying to decide whether I should just commit to quitting it completely. Right now I’m leaning toward quitting—viewing porn might be harmful, and it’s almost certainly not beneficial, so there’s a higher expected value from quitting for anybody who doesn’t assign much higher utility to the fun from porn than the fun from alternative activities.
For completeness, I should also mention the “nofap” movement. The anecdotes on there are the same sort of things you’d find when reading about homeopathy or juice fasts, though, so those can be mostly ignored.
1 and 2 apply to entertainment in general. There’s something to be said for cutting back on TV, aimless internet browsing, etc., but it makes more sense to focus on cutting back total time than eliminating one particular form of entertainment in particular.
As for 3, I’m not familiar with that particular study, but in my experience studies of “porn addiction” or “sex addiction” tend to rely on dubious definitions of “addiction.” I’d advise against taking worries of porn addiction any more seriously than worries of “internet addiction” or “social media addiction” or “TV addiction” or whatever.
This sentence sounds like it’s intended to communicate “porn addiction shouldn’t be taken very seriously”. But speaking as someone who is hardly ever capable of staying offline even for a day despite huge increases in well-being whenever he is successful at it, to say nothing about the countless of days ruined due to getting stuck on social media, these examples make it sound like you were saying that porn addiction was an immensely big risk that was worth taking very seriously indeed.
I actually had what you’ve said about social media addiction in mind when I wrote that sentence. So like, if you’re losing entire days to porn, yeah, you have a problem. But if your experience is more along the lines of “have trouble not spending at least 15 minutes on porn each day,” I wouldn’t be more worried about that than “have trouble not spending at least 15 minutes on social media each day.”
Maybe 1 and 2 apply to entertainment in general, but I think there are a few things that make porn different:
I suspect porn is in some way “more” of a superstimulus than most other forms of entertainment. At least for me, it seems to tap into a more visceral response. I don’t know of any research about this, but that doesn’t mean I should ignore that intuition.
Many other forms of entertainment have plausible other benefits (albeit often minor). Reading fiction could plausibly improve your language ability and empathy. Gaming often has a social component or a skill-building component (even if that skill doesn’t transfer to anything else or only transfers to other games). TV and movies may have some similar benefits to reading. All of them have the advantage of giving you topics to discuss with other people, whereas socially discussing the last porn you watched is usually not a good idea.
In addition, “quit porn” may be an easier rule to follow than “cut back on superstimuli (but don’t quit any of them entirely).”
It sounds to me like you’ve already decided you want to quit porn.
If you’re implying that my bottom line is already written, I don’t think that’s the case. Both of the points I made in response to ChrisHallquist were things that I had already thought of before he posted, so I wasn’t just searching for a rebuttal to his points.
If you’re implying that the arguments I’ve made seem to have already convinced me to quit...well, yes. That’s why I’m posting here: to find out whether there’s anything I’m missing.
How about you make specific predictions (written) of what will happen if you abstain for a specific number of months, then abstain for the given number of months, and then evaluate the original predictions?
For things like “clarity of mind”, find some way of measuring it. For things like “motivation” instead focus on what exactly you will be motivated to do.
Then compare with the same amount of time with porn.
It’s still very little data, but better than no data at all.
Less meta—I think it pretty much depends on what you replace it with. Which can be both someting better or something worse, and you probably don’t know the exact answer unless you try.
Porn gets me off quicker. That is it’s utility. When I’m self-pleasuring for enjoyment, I don’t watch it, because it’s more fun to use my imagination. However, when I’m sexually frustrated and can’t focus on what I want to focus on, pornography allows me to cut masturbation time down from 10-20 minutes to under 5. This is a great time saver, and allows me to spend my time more productively.
It is superstimulation, and if you come to rely on it to come or develop an addiction (arguably the same thing), then you’ll have a problem. But if it isn’t having any negative affect on your life, then why drop it?
Could you expand on what the red-flag qualities of these anecdotes are?
I view claims of a sudden increase in mental energy or clarity of thought as… not red flags, exactly, but the sort of thing people tend to report with any intervention including placebo.
So does porn… if you’re young enough.