You’re going to have to present some evidence that “good” men are systematically disadvantaged in getting relationships if you want this to be a universally accepted premise in this discussion. But if we’re only speaking anecdotally, then in my experience jerks find it easier to get laid, but good men find it easier to obtain long term relationships involving children. Anyhow, if you want to bring up the betterment of the gene pool as a serious argument, then you have to prove that abusive men are at more of a reproductive advantage than they were historically.
And how do you get “unilateral disarmament” from “going away when a woman tells me to go away” anyway? What about the relationships that ensue from encounters that both partners enjoy and want to continue? Hint: the majority of healthy relationships.
Women can’t change the way they behave until they’re assured that behaving with assurance and aggressiveness won’t penalize them socially or put them at risk of violence (since women can’t back up their assertiveness with physical force). You’re severely oversimplifying the issue if you think it’s just a matter of women “choosing” to behave differently than they do.
You’re going to have to present some evidence that “good” men are systematically disadvantaged in getting relationships if you want this to be a universally accepted premise in this discussion.
I did—the PUA I mentioned. I can cite more if you want.
Anyhow, if you want to bring up the betterment of the gene pool as a serious argument, then you have to prove that abusive men are at more of a reproductive advantage than they were historically.
That seems like an unnecessarily high threshold to meet. If a policy is destructive on its face, I needn’t wait for the damage to suggest it not be done.
And how do you get “unilateral disarmament” from “going away when a woman tells me to go away” anyway?
That’s game-theoretic terminology. “Uniltareral disarmament” refers to abandoning a selfish strategy (analogous to giving up your weapons in an international conflict), irrespective of whether the other players abandon it as well. I contend that giving up the strategy of “persisting after being told to go away” is a case of UD.
Hint: the majority of healthy relationships.
Well, that’s what we all wish were true and want to believe anyway. Recalling the earlier part of the thread I resurrected, there is a non-trivial number of cases of healthy relationships that originated from excessive persistence (edit: sorry, sentence wasn’t complete first time around).
Women can’t change the way they behave until they’re assured that behaving with assurance and aggressiveness won’t penalize them socially or put them at risk of violence (since women can’t back up their assertiveness with physical force).
What? Only telling a suitor to go away when you really mean it is aggressiveness? The entire problem I’m citing is that women tell suitors to go away in more cases than they really mean (at least retrospectively). That would imply that any problem would be in the opposite direction!
You’re severely oversimplifying the issue if you think it’s just a matter of women “choosing” to behave differently than they do.
I didn’t say that it was. Remember, the problem I cite is not that women reject when they don’t really mean it, but that they do so and also complain about men who ignore their rejections. You really can’t have it both ways.
Please do cite more. Understand that your claims are difficult for me to just accept, because in my experience when women offer men a flat refusal, in the vast majority of cases they mean no. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but you seem to be implying that when women offer a flat refusal, there’s a significant, even close to 50% chance that they actually mean yes. You need more evidence than the word of a PUA or an anecdote about a woman you know to support that claim for people who haven’t had the same experiences as you.
You’re going to have to present some evidence that “good” men are systematically disadvantaged in getting relationships if you want this to be a universally accepted premise in this discussion. But if we’re only speaking anecdotally, then in my experience jerks find it easier to get laid, but good men find it easier to obtain long term relationships involving children. Anyhow, if you want to bring up the betterment of the gene pool as a serious argument, then you have to prove that abusive men are at more of a reproductive advantage than they were historically.
And how do you get “unilateral disarmament” from “going away when a woman tells me to go away” anyway? What about the relationships that ensue from encounters that both partners enjoy and want to continue? Hint: the majority of healthy relationships.
Women can’t change the way they behave until they’re assured that behaving with assurance and aggressiveness won’t penalize them socially or put them at risk of violence (since women can’t back up their assertiveness with physical force). You’re severely oversimplifying the issue if you think it’s just a matter of women “choosing” to behave differently than they do.
I did—the PUA I mentioned. I can cite more if you want.
That seems like an unnecessarily high threshold to meet. If a policy is destructive on its face, I needn’t wait for the damage to suggest it not be done.
That’s game-theoretic terminology. “Uniltareral disarmament” refers to abandoning a selfish strategy (analogous to giving up your weapons in an international conflict), irrespective of whether the other players abandon it as well. I contend that giving up the strategy of “persisting after being told to go away” is a case of UD.
Well, that’s what we all wish were true and want to believe anyway. Recalling the earlier part of the thread I resurrected, there is a non-trivial number of cases of healthy relationships that originated from excessive persistence (edit: sorry, sentence wasn’t complete first time around).
What? Only telling a suitor to go away when you really mean it is aggressiveness? The entire problem I’m citing is that women tell suitors to go away in more cases than they really mean (at least retrospectively). That would imply that any problem would be in the opposite direction!
I didn’t say that it was. Remember, the problem I cite is not that women reject when they don’t really mean it, but that they do so and also complain about men who ignore their rejections. You really can’t have it both ways.
Please do cite more. Understand that your claims are difficult for me to just accept, because in my experience when women offer men a flat refusal, in the vast majority of cases they mean no. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but you seem to be implying that when women offer a flat refusal, there’s a significant, even close to 50% chance that they actually mean yes. You need more evidence than the word of a PUA or an anecdote about a woman you know to support that claim for people who haven’t had the same experiences as you.