Hmm. Looks like I was (inadvertently) one of the actors in this whole thing. Not intended and unforeseen. Three thoughts.
(1) At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I just wanna say thanks again to the moderation team and everyone who participates here. I think oftentimes the “behind the scenes coordination work” doesn’t get noticed during all the good times and not enough credit is noticed. I just like to notice it and say it outright. For instance, I went to the Seattle ACX meetup yesterday which I saw on here (LW), since I check ACX less frequently than LW. I had a great time and had some really wonderful conversations. I’m appreciative of all the people facilitating that, including Spencer (Seattle meetup host) and the whole team that built the infrastructure here to facilitate sharing information, getting to know each other, etc.
(2) Just to clarify—not that it matters—my endorsement of Duncan’s post was about the specific content in it, not about any the author of the post. I do think Duncan did a really nice job taking very complex concepts and boiling them down to guidelines like “Track (for yourself) and distinguish (for others) your inferences from your observations” and “Estimate (for yourself) and make clear (for others) your rough level of confidence in your assertions” — he really summed up some complex points very straightforwardly and in a way that makes the principles much easier to implement / operationalize in one’s writing style. That said, I didn’t realize when I endorsed the Rationalist Discourse post that there was some interpersonal tensions independent from the content itself. Both of those posters seem like decent people to me, but I haven’t dug deep on it and am not particularly informed on the details.
(3) I won’t make a top-level post about this, because second-degree meta-engagement with community mechanics risks setting off more second-degree and third-degree meta-engagement, and the things spiral. But as a quick recommendation to people interested in how people relate with each other, my favorite movie is Unforgiven, a very non-traditional Clint Eastwood movie. It’s like a traditional Western (cowbows, horses, etc) but really very different than the normal genre. Basically, there’s only one genuinely unprovoked “bad guy” in the movie, who has causal agency for only about 30-60 seconds of doing something bad. After that, it’s all just a chain reaction of people doing as best as they can by their values and friends, and yet the results are very bad for everyone. Incidentally, it’s also a really cinematically beautiful movie, which contrasts with the unfolding tragedy. It’s a great movie. Highly recommended.
(3) i didn’t watch the movie, nor i plan to watch it, but i read the plot summary in Wikipedia. and I see it as caution against escalation. the people there consistently believe that you should revenge on 1 point offense at 4 points punishment. and this create escalation cycle.
while i think most of Duncan’s writing is good, the thing when i think he consistently create bad situations, is in unproportional escalations of conflict, and inability to just let things be.
once upon a time if i saw someone did something 1 point bad and someone reacting in 3 point bad thing, i would think the first one is 90% of the problem. with time, i find robustness more and more important, and now i see the second one more problematic. as such. i disagree with your description of the movie.
the plot is one people doing something bad, other refuse to punish him, and a lot of people that escalate things, and so, by my standards, doing bad things. LOT of bad things. to call it a chin reaction is to not assign the people that doing bad unproportional escalating things agency over their bad choices. it’s strange for me, as i see this agency very clearly.
Hmm. Looks like I was (inadvertently) one of the actors in this whole thing. Not intended and unforeseen. Three thoughts.
(1) At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I just wanna say thanks again to the moderation team and everyone who participates here. I think oftentimes the “behind the scenes coordination work” doesn’t get noticed during all the good times and not enough credit is noticed. I just like to notice it and say it outright. For instance, I went to the Seattle ACX meetup yesterday which I saw on here (LW), since I check ACX less frequently than LW. I had a great time and had some really wonderful conversations. I’m appreciative of all the people facilitating that, including Spencer (Seattle meetup host) and the whole team that built the infrastructure here to facilitate sharing information, getting to know each other, etc.
(2) Just to clarify—not that it matters—my endorsement of Duncan’s post was about the specific content in it, not about any the author of the post. I do think Duncan did a really nice job taking very complex concepts and boiling them down to guidelines like “Track (for yourself) and distinguish (for others) your inferences from your observations” and “Estimate (for yourself) and make clear (for others) your rough level of confidence in your assertions” — he really summed up some complex points very straightforwardly and in a way that makes the principles much easier to implement / operationalize in one’s writing style. That said, I didn’t realize when I endorsed the Rationalist Discourse post that there was some interpersonal tensions independent from the content itself. Both of those posters seem like decent people to me, but I haven’t dug deep on it and am not particularly informed on the details.
(3) I won’t make a top-level post about this, because second-degree meta-engagement with community mechanics risks setting off more second-degree and third-degree meta-engagement, and the things spiral. But as a quick recommendation to people interested in how people relate with each other, my favorite movie is Unforgiven, a very non-traditional Clint Eastwood movie. It’s like a traditional Western (cowbows, horses, etc) but really very different than the normal genre. Basically, there’s only one genuinely unprovoked “bad guy” in the movie, who has causal agency for only about 30-60 seconds of doing something bad. After that, it’s all just a chain reaction of people doing as best as they can by their values and friends, and yet the results are very bad for everyone. Incidentally, it’s also a really cinematically beautiful movie, which contrasts with the unfolding tragedy. It’s a great movie. Highly recommended.
(3) i didn’t watch the movie, nor i plan to watch it, but i read the plot summary in Wikipedia. and I see it as caution against escalation. the people there consistently believe that you should revenge on 1 point offense at 4 points punishment. and this create escalation cycle.
while i think most of Duncan’s writing is good, the thing when i think he consistently create bad situations, is in unproportional escalations of conflict, and inability to just let things be.
once upon a time if i saw someone did something 1 point bad and someone reacting in 3 point bad thing, i would think the first one is 90% of the problem. with time, i find robustness more and more important, and now i see the second one more problematic. as such. i disagree with your description of the movie.
the plot is one people doing something bad, other refuse to punish him, and a lot of people that escalate things, and so, by my standards, doing bad things. LOT of bad things. to call it a chin reaction is to not assign the people that doing bad unproportional escalating things agency over their bad choices. it’s strange for me, as i see this agency very clearly.