Good arguments support some claim. Bad arguments provide little/no support. Some arguments are so bad that they support the opposite claim. This is one of those.
This comment received a lot of backlash. Admittedly, my comment wasn’t as diplomatic as it might’ve been nor did I elaborate on my own reasoning. In my defence, I didn’t think the original article was making much of an effort to get at the truth (see other criticisms above). Rather, it is a (very) one-sided account advocating that we should not consider the other side of the story (ie, it is an attack on both-sidesism).
The attack on both-sidesism is consistent with findings referenced in the video below. Both sides are prone to such anti-democratic behaviour, but the findings also suggest that one side is “slightly more willing to sacrifice democracy (by supporting actions that benefit their own party at the expense of democracy)”. This might be a case in point.
The events of Nov 6⁄7, 2024 might support the argument that the original argument was indeed self-defeating; ie, an argument against the argument against both-sidesism—effectively, an argument for both-sidesism.
Thanks Mr Frege for clarifying your points. As I have mentioned (in other comments) I’ve conceded that I probably should have contextualised my own abandonment of both-sidesism before taking a partisan approach that makes my post appear more biased than it actually is, and probably colours the way it is read.
advocating that we should not consider the other side of the story
Okay, I definitely should have clarified that this is not my intention at all. Both-sidesism, as I’m referring to it, is creating a false equivalence between two issues and giving them equal weight regardless of their validity. I am strongly for considering the other side of the story. I think it is important to steel-man your opponent’s position, and your comment has revealed that I failed to do this in the post. I should have made a clear case for both-sidesism further than merely stating that it is “well intentioned”, before addressing the problems with it. Thank you for your feedback on those two points, which seem obvious to me in retrospect.
Both sides are prone to such anti-democratic behaviour, but the findings also suggest that one side is “slightly more willing to sacrifice democracy
This was interesting. It provides a counter to the Nature study referenced in the post, which makes sense when considering the different methodologies, specifically what they count as equally anti-democratic actions. I have some ideas about how one could interpret these results, but after writing them down they were pretty lengthy, and would invite a larger argument that I don’t really have time for. I think the study provides an important lesson to learn—the danger of accusing your opponent of something leading to justifying your own doing of that very thing. This is something I’ve called negative moral licensing.
The events of Nov 6⁄7, 2024 might support the argument that the original argument was indeed self-defeating; ie, an argument against the argument against both-sidesism—effectively, an argument for both-sidesism.
I’m afraid I can’t quite parse this point, I’m not sure if you’re saying the election results support my post, or the contrary, and either way, I’m not sure why the result would support either position.
Thanks again for clarifying your points. As you will see I’ve taken on board a few of your points. Hopefully this has been a worthwhile interaction for you, it has for me. Happy to hear your thoughts on the negative moral licensing post if you get around to reading it.
Good arguments support some claim. Bad arguments provide little/no support. Some arguments are so bad that they support the opposite claim. This is one of those.
This comment received a lot of backlash. Admittedly, my comment wasn’t as diplomatic as it might’ve been nor did I elaborate on my own reasoning. In my defence, I didn’t think the original article was making much of an effort to get at the truth (see other criticisms above). Rather, it is a (very) one-sided account advocating that we should not consider the other side of the story (ie, it is an attack on both-sidesism).
The attack on both-sidesism is consistent with findings referenced in the video below. Both sides are prone to such anti-democratic behaviour, but the findings also suggest that one side is “slightly more willing to sacrifice democracy (by supporting actions that benefit their own party at the expense of democracy)”. This might be a case in point.
Feel free to watch the whole thing, but the tldr part starts at 4:05.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVqjH6MaqRY
The events of Nov 6⁄7, 2024 might support the argument that the original argument was indeed self-defeating; ie, an argument against the argument against both-sidesism—effectively, an argument for both-sidesism.
Thanks Mr Frege for clarifying your points. As I have mentioned (in other comments) I’ve conceded that I probably should have contextualised my own abandonment of both-sidesism before taking a partisan approach that makes my post appear more biased than it actually is, and probably colours the way it is read.
Okay, I definitely should have clarified that this is not my intention at all. Both-sidesism, as I’m referring to it, is creating a false equivalence between two issues and giving them equal weight regardless of their validity. I am strongly for considering the other side of the story. I think it is important to steel-man your opponent’s position, and your comment has revealed that I failed to do this in the post. I should have made a clear case for both-sidesism further than merely stating that it is “well intentioned”, before addressing the problems with it. Thank you for your feedback on those two points, which seem obvious to me in retrospect.
This was interesting. It provides a counter to the Nature study referenced in the post, which makes sense when considering the different methodologies, specifically what they count as equally anti-democratic actions. I have some ideas about how one could interpret these results, but after writing them down they were pretty lengthy, and would invite a larger argument that I don’t really have time for. I think the study provides an important lesson to learn—the danger of accusing your opponent of something leading to justifying your own doing of that very thing. This is something I’ve called negative moral licensing.
I’m afraid I can’t quite parse this point, I’m not sure if you’re saying the election results support my post, or the contrary, and either way, I’m not sure why the result would support either position.
Thanks again for clarifying your points. As you will see I’ve taken on board a few of your points. Hopefully this has been a worthwhile interaction for you, it has for me. Happy to hear your thoughts on the negative moral licensing post if you get around to reading it.