I think Raemon’s comments accurately describe my general feeling about this post-intriguing, but not well-optimized for a post.
However, I also think that this post may be the source of a subtle misconception in simulacra levels that the broader LessWrong community has adopted. Specifically, I think the distinction between 3 and 4 is blurred in this post, and tries to draw the false analogy that 1:2::3:4. Going from 3 (masks the absence of a profound reality) to 4 (no profound reality) is more clearly described not as a “widespread understanding” that they don’t mean anything, but as the lack of an attempt to promulgate a vision of reality in which they do mean something. In the jobs example, this means a title like “Vice President of Sorting” when your company doesn’t sort, but sorting is a viable job is level 3. In this case, the sign attempts to be interpreted by interviews as a kind of fabrication of a profound reality, masking the absence thereof. In my mind, this is pretty clearly where Trump falls: “successful businessman” is not a profound reality, but he’d like it to be interpreted as one. On the other hand, SL4 refers to a world in which titles aren’t designed to refer to anything at all: rather, they become their own self-referential ecosystem. In this case, all “Vice-president of laundering hexagons” means is that I was deemed worthy of a “vice-president of laundering hexagons,” not that I’m attempting to convince someone that I actually laundered hexagons but everyone knows that that’s not true.
ETA-as strongly implied above, I do not support upvoting this post.
I think this points to a mismatch between Benquo and Baudrillard, but not to a problem with the version of the concept Benquo uses. Given how successful the (modified, slightly different) concept has been, I consider this more of a problem with Baudrillard’s book than a problem with Benquo’s post.
I think Raemon’s comments accurately describe my general feeling about this post-intriguing, but not well-optimized for a post.
However, I also think that this post may be the source of a subtle misconception in simulacra levels that the broader LessWrong community has adopted. Specifically, I think the distinction between 3 and 4 is blurred in this post, and tries to draw the false analogy that 1:2::3:4. Going from 3 (masks the absence of a profound reality) to 4 (no profound reality) is more clearly described not as a “widespread understanding” that they don’t mean anything, but as the lack of an attempt to promulgate a vision of reality in which they do mean something. In the jobs example, this means a title like “Vice President of Sorting” when your company doesn’t sort, but sorting is a viable job is level 3. In this case, the sign attempts to be interpreted by interviews as a kind of fabrication of a profound reality, masking the absence thereof. In my mind, this is pretty clearly where Trump falls: “successful businessman” is not a profound reality, but he’d like it to be interpreted as one. On the other hand, SL4 refers to a world in which titles aren’t designed to refer to anything at all: rather, they become their own self-referential ecosystem. In this case, all “Vice-president of laundering hexagons” means is that I was deemed worthy of a “vice-president of laundering hexagons,” not that I’m attempting to convince someone that I actually laundered hexagons but everyone knows that that’s not true.
ETA-as strongly implied above, I do not support upvoting this post.
I think this points to a mismatch between Benquo and Baudrillard, but not to a problem with the version of the concept Benquo uses. Given how successful the (modified, slightly different) concept has been, I consider this more of a problem with Baudrillard’s book than a problem with Benquo’s post.