I’m not 100% clear as to where the non-ambitious posts should go, so I will write my question here.
Do you know of a practical way of finding intellectual friends, so as to have challenging/interesting conversations more often? Not only is the social aspect of friendship in general invaluable (of course I wouldn’t be asking here if that was the sole reason), but I assume talking about the topics I care and think about will force me to flesh them out and keep me closer to Truth, and is a great source of novelty. So, from a purely practical standpoint (although I don’t deny other motives), I want to improve this part of my life.
Sporadic discourse with my normal friends often pops up in unsuitable conditions and with underequipped participants. Meeting the right type of person in real life takes a huge sample and social skills. Focused forums, like this one, contain the right type of people and are very useful, but lacking in one-to-one personal and casual conversation (neither method is superior, I’d prefer a mix of both to the current imbalance).
Fun fact about me (or a thinly vailed plea for a diagnosis): Often when I’m bothered by a problem or simply bored, my mind will conjure vivid conversations with one of my friends and have us argue this problem. I never actually aim for it to happen, it’s as spontaneous as normal thinking. I have no proof, but I’d say those imaginary conversations are more productive, because my imaginary listeners will disagree or misunderstand me, raising important points or faults in my reasoning. Whereas with normal thinking, I agree with myself the wast majority of time.
Do you know of a practical way of finding intellectual friends, so as to have challenging/interesting conversations more often?
Depending on where you are in your life and education, you could consider enrolling in graduate school. I found that I tended to have intellectual conversations with my fellow students and professors in graduate school. Plus you will have at least one common interest with your fellow students—whatever subject you are studying in school.
Grad school is too big of a commitment just to find intellectual friends. But, if you have an interest in grad school to advance your education or career, then meeting intellectual friends is an added benefit.
Finally, even if you are working and do not wish to go back to school full time, many universities offer a master’s program that you can enroll in on a part-time basis. As a part-time student you will have less contact with your fellow students and therefore fewer chances to make friends, etc., but this can be overcome with a little effort to socialize, attend events, host small dinner parties, etc.
Fun fact about me (or a thinly vailed plea for a diagnosis): Often when I’m bothered by a problem or simply bored, my mind will conjure vivid conversations with one of my friends and have us argue this problem.
I do this too. I don’t think that it is abnormal—I agree with you that it can be a useful way to think through issues. I once worked with a more senior engineer who was also a personal friend and mentor. But, his job was demanding and he was always quite busy. So, when I needed his help to solve some problem, I would think about what sorts of questions he would ask, so that I could be prepared to answer them—basically, I would play out the (probable) conversation in my head ahead of time to avoid wasting his time. More often than not, this process would yield the answer to the problem, and I would end up not having to bother him at all.
Depending on where you are in your life and education, you could consider enrolling in graduate school.
If I’ve managed to translate “graduate school” to our educational system correctly, then I currently am in undergraduate school. Our mileages vary by quite a bit, most people I meet aren’t of the caliber. Also, it’s hard to find out if they are. Socially etiquette prevents me from bringing up the heavy hitting topics except on rare occasions.
I guess I should work on my social skills then cast a bigger net. The larger the sample, the better odds I have of finding someone worthwhile. Needless to say I’m introverted and socialization doesn’t come easily, but I’ll find a way.
In that case, you could look for clubs and organizations to join at your university. If you are in engineering or natural sciences, there will probably be a professional/academic organization for your sub discipline you could join (e.g. IEEE for electrical engineers, ACS for chemistry majors, ACM for computer science, etc.) I would imagine that mathematics and liberal arts have similar organizations as well. And, attend the meetings and functions. You could also look for other organizations on campus such as political organizations, cultural organizations, a cinema society (if you are a film enthusiast), etc.
No guarantees that these will lead to intellectual conversations, but the people who join and participate in these type of organizations tend to be (on average) more intellectual than those who do not.
And, as Grothor suggested, look for nearby LessWrong meetups (if any).
Same here. I find that simulating other people’s reaction to my arguments, mistakes, or work that I’ve done is helpful. When I want to find logical errors in my arguments, I imagine explaining them to someone with a strong background in philosophy. When something isn’t working well in the lab, I imagine explaining the situation to someone with experience, and if I feel embarrassed or like they’re about to offer a super obvious solution, it usually means I’ve made some silly mistake. Also, getting back to Sandi’s question, some of the most helpful people for me to simulate are people that I met through the LessWrong meetup in Austin.
you could consider enrolling in graduate school
My classmates in grad school are often, but not always, a good source of more productive intellectual conversations. There is still sometimes an issue of differences in the style of thinking that people appreciate, or the kinds of topics they’re interested in. And, of course, just because someone has had enough success in graduate school to stick around and be a friend for a few years doesn’t mean they don’t succumb to a variety of biases that can make it harder to have the kinds of conversations you’re seeking.
I’m not 100% clear as to where the non-ambitious posts should go, so I will write my question here.
Do you know of a practical way of finding intellectual friends, so as to have challenging/interesting conversations more often? Not only is the social aspect of friendship in general invaluable (of course I wouldn’t be asking here if that was the sole reason), but I assume talking about the topics I care and think about will force me to flesh them out and keep me closer to Truth, and is a great source of novelty. So, from a purely practical standpoint (although I don’t deny other motives), I want to improve this part of my life.
Sporadic discourse with my normal friends often pops up in unsuitable conditions and with underequipped participants. Meeting the right type of person in real life takes a huge sample and social skills. Focused forums, like this one, contain the right type of people and are very useful, but lacking in one-to-one personal and casual conversation (neither method is superior, I’d prefer a mix of both to the current imbalance).
Fun fact about me (or a thinly vailed plea for a diagnosis): Often when I’m bothered by a problem or simply bored, my mind will conjure vivid conversations with one of my friends and have us argue this problem. I never actually aim for it to happen, it’s as spontaneous as normal thinking. I have no proof, but I’d say those imaginary conversations are more productive, because my imaginary listeners will disagree or misunderstand me, raising important points or faults in my reasoning. Whereas with normal thinking, I agree with myself the wast majority of time.
Depending on where you are in your life and education, you could consider enrolling in graduate school. I found that I tended to have intellectual conversations with my fellow students and professors in graduate school. Plus you will have at least one common interest with your fellow students—whatever subject you are studying in school.
Grad school is too big of a commitment just to find intellectual friends. But, if you have an interest in grad school to advance your education or career, then meeting intellectual friends is an added benefit.
Finally, even if you are working and do not wish to go back to school full time, many universities offer a master’s program that you can enroll in on a part-time basis. As a part-time student you will have less contact with your fellow students and therefore fewer chances to make friends, etc., but this can be overcome with a little effort to socialize, attend events, host small dinner parties, etc.
I do this too. I don’t think that it is abnormal—I agree with you that it can be a useful way to think through issues. I once worked with a more senior engineer who was also a personal friend and mentor. But, his job was demanding and he was always quite busy. So, when I needed his help to solve some problem, I would think about what sorts of questions he would ask, so that I could be prepared to answer them—basically, I would play out the (probable) conversation in my head ahead of time to avoid wasting his time. More often than not, this process would yield the answer to the problem, and I would end up not having to bother him at all.
If I’ve managed to translate “graduate school” to our educational system correctly, then I currently am in undergraduate school. Our mileages vary by quite a bit, most people I meet aren’t of the caliber. Also, it’s hard to find out if they are. Socially etiquette prevents me from bringing up the heavy hitting topics except on rare occasions.
I guess I should work on my social skills then cast a bigger net. The larger the sample, the better odds I have of finding someone worthwhile. Needless to say I’m introverted and socialization doesn’t come easily, but I’ll find a way.
Oh, thank the proverbial God.
In that case, you could look for clubs and organizations to join at your university. If you are in engineering or natural sciences, there will probably be a professional/academic organization for your sub discipline you could join (e.g. IEEE for electrical engineers, ACS for chemistry majors, ACM for computer science, etc.) I would imagine that mathematics and liberal arts have similar organizations as well. And, attend the meetings and functions. You could also look for other organizations on campus such as political organizations, cultural organizations, a cinema society (if you are a film enthusiast), etc.
No guarantees that these will lead to intellectual conversations, but the people who join and participate in these type of organizations tend to be (on average) more intellectual than those who do not.
And, as Grothor suggested, look for nearby LessWrong meetups (if any).
Same here. I find that simulating other people’s reaction to my arguments, mistakes, or work that I’ve done is helpful. When I want to find logical errors in my arguments, I imagine explaining them to someone with a strong background in philosophy. When something isn’t working well in the lab, I imagine explaining the situation to someone with experience, and if I feel embarrassed or like they’re about to offer a super obvious solution, it usually means I’ve made some silly mistake. Also, getting back to Sandi’s question, some of the most helpful people for me to simulate are people that I met through the LessWrong meetup in Austin.
My classmates in grad school are often, but not always, a good source of more productive intellectual conversations. There is still sometimes an issue of differences in the style of thinking that people appreciate, or the kinds of topics they’re interested in. And, of course, just because someone has had enough success in graduate school to stick around and be a friend for a few years doesn’t mean they don’t succumb to a variety of biases that can make it harder to have the kinds of conversations you’re seeking.
(Also, the place to ask this sort of question might be the current Open Thread: http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/ol5/open_thread_feb_06_feb_12_2017/)