was the idea/half-belief already present and NDEs/OBEs only make it slightly more likely or difficult to rule out entirely?
That is almost certainly true. But it doesn’t make the first part of your statement false.
Do things like NDEs and OBEs alone lead you to think that there is a possible afterlife[?]
I’m trying to objectively decide the answer to this question. It’s difficult because of your other point.
you might be discussing this topic as if a certain set of evidence matters, when it really has nothing to do with why you deal delicately with the afterlife idea while harshly with the other unsupported hypotheses I listed above
If this is true, how do I know? If I’m biased to believe in an afterlife and evidence that would otherwise not applicable becomes convincing to me because of my bias, how would I be able to tell this is true rather than the alternative? (which is that I’m unbiased and that the evidence really is convincing)
If this is true, how do I know? If I’m biased to believe in an afterlife and evidence that would otherwise not applicable becomes convincing to me because of my bias, how would I be able to tell this is true rather than the alternative?
That’s a great question… I’m not sure I know! One idea is to consider (if possible) some equally difficult-to-explain phenomenon and potential explanations offered up which defy naturalism. Would you be prone to believe in miracle reports of various religions if they truly could not be explained? Like this?
The only thing I can think of right now is to look at other evidence that is 1) in the same class (inexplicable at present, equally documented) and 2) believed to imply some belief by some set of people. If you agree that the evidence for whatever it is in #1 is on par with that for OBE/NDEs and currently inexplicable but deny whatever belief is held by those in #2… you may have a bias on your hands.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything right now in this category, exactly. I’ll keep thinking, though.
[I’m going to leave this comment like it is, but I’m adding this edit for clarification. After a second read-through, I do agree that the quote I posted proves that NDE’s aren’t compelling evidence in the sense that they aren’t definite proof of God/the afterlife/whatever. But I don’t think they proved that NDE’s aren’t valid evidence, which it seemed to me at first they tried to do, and I then realized that they hadn’t. So take this comment with a grain of salt, and see what you can make of it]
DreadedAnomaly gave two good articles to read in his post below*, which could possibly explain OBE/NDEs as completely natural. These are pretty good articles, but they highlight a problem I have with the whole discussion: that the anti-afterlife side seems biased, too. For example, a quote from this article:
According to Dr. Jansen, ketamine can reproduce all the main features of the NDE, including travel through a dark tunnel into the light, the feeling that one is dead, communing with God, hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, strange noises, etc. This does not prove that the NDE is nothing but a set of physical responses, nor does it prove that there is no life after death. It does, however, prove that an NDE is not compelling evidence for belief in either the existence of a separate consciousness or of an afterlife.
This (to me) certainly does not prove that NDE’s are not compelling evidence, it proved that it was not necessarily compelling evidence. It suggested that NDE’s were not compelling evidence and further argument might have convinced me, but it seemed a bit too soon to call it a “proof” to me. (and there was no further argument, because they thought they had proved it) Things like this cause me to question whether there is anyone who has published unbiased arguments for or against God or the afterlife. Responses to this post don’t seem to escape bias, and while we can account for bias, it’s particularly difficult to do so for a topic where I’m questioning whether I’m biased myself. *http://lesswrong.com/lw/3ok/is_there_anything_after_death/3bgr
That is almost certainly true. But it doesn’t make the first part of your statement false.
I’m trying to objectively decide the answer to this question. It’s difficult because of your other point.
If this is true, how do I know? If I’m biased to believe in an afterlife and evidence that would otherwise not applicable becomes convincing to me because of my bias, how would I be able to tell this is true rather than the alternative? (which is that I’m unbiased and that the evidence really is convincing)
That’s a great question… I’m not sure I know! One idea is to consider (if possible) some equally difficult-to-explain phenomenon and potential explanations offered up which defy naturalism. Would you be prone to believe in miracle reports of various religions if they truly could not be explained? Like this?
The only thing I can think of right now is to look at other evidence that is 1) in the same class (inexplicable at present, equally documented) and 2) believed to imply some belief by some set of people. If you agree that the evidence for whatever it is in #1 is on par with that for OBE/NDEs and currently inexplicable but deny whatever belief is held by those in #2… you may have a bias on your hands.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything right now in this category, exactly. I’ll keep thinking, though.
[I’m going to leave this comment like it is, but I’m adding this edit for clarification. After a second read-through, I do agree that the quote I posted proves that NDE’s aren’t compelling evidence in the sense that they aren’t definite proof of God/the afterlife/whatever. But I don’t think they proved that NDE’s aren’t valid evidence, which it seemed to me at first they tried to do, and I then realized that they hadn’t. So take this comment with a grain of salt, and see what you can make of it]
DreadedAnomaly gave two good articles to read in his post below*, which could possibly explain OBE/NDEs as completely natural. These are pretty good articles, but they highlight a problem I have with the whole discussion: that the anti-afterlife side seems biased, too. For example, a quote from this article:
This (to me) certainly does not prove that NDE’s are not compelling evidence, it proved that it was not necessarily compelling evidence. It suggested that NDE’s were not compelling evidence and further argument might have convinced me, but it seemed a bit too soon to call it a “proof” to me. (and there was no further argument, because they thought they had proved it)
Things like this cause me to question whether there is anyone who has published unbiased arguments for or against God or the afterlife. Responses to this post don’t seem to escape bias, and while we can account for bias, it’s particularly difficult to do so for a topic where I’m questioning whether I’m biased myself.
*http://lesswrong.com/lw/3ok/is_there_anything_after_death/3bgr