Also, negative Eugenics laws have existed in many Western countries in the past. They only would’ve be used against you and your friends if you were violent criminals, or something along those lines. Are you saying that you support the reproduction of violent criminals, who will have offspring that also carry genes that predispose them to commit more violent crimes against others?
Wars have been fought over this, and if you try it, they will be again.
Abortion should be blind to the child’s attributes.
If abortion should be “blind to the child’s attributes”, then you should put your time and money where you mouth is and be willing to take of disabled children who will never have a future or be able to take care of themselves. If you won’t do that, then you should concede. Your dogma will not create a sustainable, long-lasting civilization.
Also, this is kind of personal, but my own brother is so mentally disabled that he cannot take care of himself. Both of my parents, my siblings, and myself all agree that it would’ve been better to abort him, if they knew that he would be as disabled as he is. Instead, my parents and myself will have to take care of him for the rest of our lives or until he dies. I love my brother, I don’t hate him, and I think it’s very unfortunate that he is disabled. But my parents and I still believe that it would’ve been better for everybody if he had never been born.
If you had to put up with everything that my family has had to put up with, I think you would change your mind. My hypothesis is that most people are against preventing dysgenics, until they have to experience the consequences of it for themselves.
[edit 7d later: I was too angry here. I think there’s some version of this that can be defended, but it’s not the version I wrote while angry. edit 2mo latet: It’s pretty close, but my policy suggestions need refinement and I need to justify why I think the connection to past eugenics still exists.]
If abortion should be “blind to the child’s attributes”, then you should put your money where you mouth is and be willing to take of disabled children who will never have a future or be able to take care of themselves. If you won’t do that, then you should concede. Your dogma will not create a sustainable, long-lasting civilization.
Solve these things in already-developed organisms. It’s orders of magnitude harder, yes, but it’s necessary for it to be morally acceptable. Your brother should get to go into cryonics and be revived once we can heal him. Failing that, it’s just the risk you take reproducing. Or at least, that will remain my perspective, since I will keep repeating, from my dad’s perspective, I would have been a defect worth eliminating. There is nothing you can say to convince me, and I will take every option available to me to prevent your success at this moral atrocity. Sorry about the suffering of ancient earth, but let’s fix it in a way that produces outcomes worth creating rather than hellscapes of conformity.
Your brother should get to go into cryonics and be revived once we can heal him.
That’s a terrible idea. Cryonics is unlikely to succeed. My family also can’t afford to put him into cryonics. It’s also not any more likely that we could fix my brother, even if we did revive him with cryonics.
Failing that, it’s just the risk you take reproducing.
Why? And according to who? Numerous historical societies chose to let severely disabled people die on their own in the past, because it was maladaptive to take care of them. My parents can’t take care of him forever, and neither should society if he’s not able to make his own positive contributions.
Having to take care of a severely disabled person is a burden that literally nobody wants to have, if they have the choice of avoiding it. That’s the reality. If you disagree with me, then you better put your time, money, and effort where your mouth is and bear the burden yourself. If you won’t do that, then you’re a hypocrite.
Why not? As I explained in the essay, modern civilization will collapse without some form of eugenics.
You’re probably still a eugenicist in some sense. Some people would argue that opposing incest and supporting abortion of any kind counts as eugenics.
Also, negative Eugenics laws have existed in many Western countries in the past. They only would’ve be used against you and your friends if you were violent criminals, or something along those lines. Are you saying that you support the reproduction of violent criminals, who will have offspring that also carry genes that predispose them to commit more violent crimes against others?
Nazism is not the same thing as eugenics. Eugenics doesn’t require fighting wars.
If abortion should be “blind to the child’s attributes”, then you should put your time and money where you mouth is and be willing to take of disabled children who will never have a future or be able to take care of themselves. If you won’t do that, then you should concede. Your dogma will not create a sustainable, long-lasting civilization.
Also, this is kind of personal, but my own brother is so mentally disabled that he cannot take care of himself. Both of my parents, my siblings, and myself all agree that it would’ve been better to abort him, if they knew that he would be as disabled as he is. Instead, my parents and myself will have to take care of him for the rest of our lives or until he dies. I love my brother, I don’t hate him, and I think it’s very unfortunate that he is disabled. But my parents and I still believe that it would’ve been better for everybody if he had never been born.
If you had to put up with everything that my family has had to put up with, I think you would change your mind. My hypothesis is that most people are against preventing dysgenics, until they have to experience the consequences of it for themselves.
Also, some social conservatives would insist that attribute-blind abortions still count as eugenics.
[edit 7d later: I was too angry here. I think there’s some version of this that can be defended, but it’s not the version I wrote while angry. edit 2mo latet: It’s pretty close, but my policy suggestions need refinement and I need to justify why I think the connection to past eugenics still exists.]
Solve these things in already-developed organisms. It’s orders of magnitude harder, yes, but it’s necessary for it to be morally acceptable. Your brother should get to go into cryonics and be revived once we can heal him. Failing that, it’s just the risk you take reproducing. Or at least, that will remain my perspective,since I will keep repeating, from my dad’s perspective, I would have been a defect worth eliminating. There is nothing you can say to convince me, and I will take every option available to me to prevent your success at this moral atrocity.Sorry about the suffering of ancient earth, but let’s fix it in a way that produces outcomes worth creating rather than hellscapes of conformity.What is “morally acceptable”? I think morality is an illusion. I’ve also argued that eugenics can be defended within the humanist value/moral framework of the West.
That’s a terrible idea. Cryonics is unlikely to succeed. My family also can’t afford to put him into cryonics. It’s also not any more likely that we could fix my brother, even if we did revive him with cryonics.
Why? And according to who? Numerous historical societies chose to let severely disabled people die on their own in the past, because it was maladaptive to take care of them. My parents can’t take care of him forever, and neither should society if he’s not able to make his own positive contributions.
Having to take care of a severely disabled person is a burden that literally nobody wants to have, if they have the choice of avoiding it. That’s the reality. If you disagree with me, then you better put your time, money, and effort where your mouth is and bear the burden yourself. If you won’t do that, then you’re a hypocrite.