A very effective Lyme vaccine is in fact manufactured and sold, but only for use on dogs. Just find yourself a morally flexible vet. Failing that, monitoring for symptoms and taking a large dose of antibiotics within ~48 hours of symptoms is extremely effective.
I live near Peekskill and have had Lyme twice. The first time it took a while to diagnose, as I knew nothing about it, and it had a negative impact on my summer for sure. The second time I had purchased grey market antibiotics and immediately took a large dose when symptoms appeared. I then went to the doctor, who strongly approved of my decision.
My impression is that the kind of person who is paranoid enough about Lyme to have written this post is not the kind of person who ends up with any kind of long term adverse effects. You have symptoms, you take the antibiotics, and they work. If you’re worried about gut flora or whatever, follow up with probiotics, or a high quality yogurt. You’ll be fine.
Properly diagnosed and treated Lyme is significantly less annoying than the flu. You just have to know what to look out for—the red ring rash, night sweats, lethargy, etc. If you catch it before you have major joint swelling (which takes months), you’re A-OK. The western blot test for it is cheap, but also, very occasionally taking antibiotics unnecessarily has few consequences—it’s the same stuff people take for such horrifying scourges as teenage acne.
It sounds like you’re assuming you notice it promptly? I know several people who initially didn’t have the symptoms but then later got the arthritic symptoms.
Yes, this is something of a crux for me—what are our odds of noticing, if we’re paranoid? Folks say a rash is only present in 70-80% of cases; do you have stats on how often the rest is present? (How would one generate those stats?)
Jefftk, can you say more about the people who know who didn’t initially get the symptoms but later got arthritic symptoms, and about how many people you know who got Lyme altogether, and how sure you are that the arthritic symptoms are from Lyme?
monitoring for symptoms and taking a large dose of antibiotics within ~48 hours of symptoms is extremely effective.
I’m confused about this. Can you say more about what your threshold is for “extremely effective,” or why you think so? Wikipedia states: “People who receive recommended antibiotic treatment within several days of appearance of an initial EM rash have the best prospects.[106] Recovery may not be total or immediate. The percentage of people achieving full recovery in the United States increases from about 64–71% at end of treatment for EM rash to about 84–90% after 30 months; higher percentages are reported in Europe.[171][172] Treatment failure, i.e. persistence of original or appearance of new signs of the disease, occurs only in a few people.[171] Remaining people are considered cured but continue to experience subjective symptoms, e.g. joint or muscle pains or fatigue.[173] These symptoms usually are mild and nondisabling.[173]”
This leaves me thinking that even with rapid antibiotics, the debilitation per (infection that causes a rash) is significant.
My belief is that “long Lyme” is mostly fake. None of the symptoms can be objectively measured.
Imagine telling people that after you recover from the flu you might experience entirely subjective symptoms that mysteriously resemble the symptoms of getting older. What percent of people would claim to experience those symptoms?
Higher recovery rates are reported in cultures that talk less about long Lyme.
The people who do genuinely have long-term symptoms generally had knees that looked like grapefruits by the time they saw a doctor.
In general, a vaccine being safe and effective for dogs does not mean it’s a good idea for humans. Is there a reason to think it’s different in this case?
The immunization you can now give your puppy is essentially this original [LYMErix] vaccine, says Stanley Plotkin, a professor and consultant who literally wrote the book on vaccines, and whose son almost died from cardiac Lyme disease.
But we’d need a lot more detail and confirmation than just ‘a second-hand claim from an expert that they’re “essentially” the same’.
Fwiw, I self-administered dog Lymerix and I’m doing fine.
Zooming out a bit, if you asked people living here for reasons why they’d consider moving away, Lyme disease would be like #200 on the list. Maybe they’re wildly wrong, but I feel it’s a bit like the people who wouldn’t move to California because of earthquakes. There’s an inside/outside view disconnect.
A very effective Lyme vaccine is in fact manufactured and sold, but only for use on dogs. Just find yourself a morally flexible vet. Failing that, monitoring for symptoms and taking a large dose of antibiotics within ~48 hours of symptoms is extremely effective.
I live near Peekskill and have had Lyme twice. The first time it took a while to diagnose, as I knew nothing about it, and it had a negative impact on my summer for sure. The second time I had purchased grey market antibiotics and immediately took a large dose when symptoms appeared. I then went to the doctor, who strongly approved of my decision.
My impression is that the kind of person who is paranoid enough about Lyme to have written this post is not the kind of person who ends up with any kind of long term adverse effects. You have symptoms, you take the antibiotics, and they work. If you’re worried about gut flora or whatever, follow up with probiotics, or a high quality yogurt. You’ll be fine.
Properly diagnosed and treated Lyme is significantly less annoying than the flu. You just have to know what to look out for—the red ring rash, night sweats, lethargy, etc. If you catch it before you have major joint swelling (which takes months), you’re A-OK. The western blot test for it is cheap, but also, very occasionally taking antibiotics unnecessarily has few consequences—it’s the same stuff people take for such horrifying scourges as teenage acne.
It looks to me like one can buy this Lyme vaccine online without a prescription.
It sounds like you’re assuming you notice it promptly? I know several people who initially didn’t have the symptoms but then later got the arthritic symptoms.
Yes, this is something of a crux for me—what are our odds of noticing, if we’re paranoid? Folks say a rash is only present in 70-80% of cases; do you have stats on how often the rest is present? (How would one generate those stats?)
Jefftk, can you say more about the people who know who didn’t initially get the symptoms but later got arthritic symptoms, and about how many people you know who got Lyme altogether, and how sure you are that the arthritic symptoms are from Lyme?
I’m confused about this. Can you say more about what your threshold is for “extremely effective,” or why you think so? Wikipedia states: “People who receive recommended antibiotic treatment within several days of appearance of an initial EM rash have the best prospects.[106] Recovery may not be total or immediate. The percentage of people achieving full recovery in the United States increases from about 64–71% at end of treatment for EM rash to about 84–90% after 30 months; higher percentages are reported in Europe.[171][172] Treatment failure, i.e. persistence of original or appearance of new signs of the disease, occurs only in a few people.[171] Remaining people are considered cured but continue to experience subjective symptoms, e.g. joint or muscle pains or fatigue.[173] These symptoms usually are mild and nondisabling.[173]”
This leaves me thinking that even with rapid antibiotics, the debilitation per (infection that causes a rash) is significant.
My belief is that “long Lyme” is mostly fake. None of the symptoms can be objectively measured.
Imagine telling people that after you recover from the flu you might experience entirely subjective symptoms that mysteriously resemble the symptoms of getting older. What percent of people would claim to experience those symptoms?
Higher recovery rates are reported in cultures that talk less about long Lyme.
The people who do genuinely have long-term symptoms generally had knees that looked like grapefruits by the time they saw a doctor.
In general, a vaccine being safe and effective for dogs does not mean it’s a good idea for humans. Is there a reason to think it’s different in this case?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/09/dogs-can-be-vaccinated-against-lyme-disease-humans-cant/ says:
But we’d need a lot more detail and confirmation than just ‘a second-hand claim from an expert that they’re “essentially” the same’.
Fwiw, I self-administered dog Lymerix and I’m doing fine.
Zooming out a bit, if you asked people living here for reasons why they’d consider moving away, Lyme disease would be like #200 on the list. Maybe they’re wildly wrong, but I feel it’s a bit like the people who wouldn’t move to California because of earthquakes. There’s an inside/outside view disconnect.