Does anyone know whether added sugar is bad for you if you ignore the following points?
It spikes your blood sugar quickly (it has a high glycemic index)
It doesn’t have any nutrients, but it does have calories
It does not make you feel full, so it makes it easier to eat more calories, and
It increases tooth decay.
I’m asking because I’m trying to figure out what carbohydrate-dense foods to eat when I’m bulking. I find it difficult to cram in enough calories per day, so most of my calories come from fat and protein at the moment. I’m not getting enough carbs. But most “carby foods for bulking” (e.g. potatoes, rice) are very filling! E.g., a cup of rice has 200 kcal, but a cup of nuts has 800.
I did some stats to figure out what carby foods have a low glycemic index but also a low satiation index, i.e. how quickly they make you feel full. My analysis showed that sponge cake was a great choice, having a glycemic index of only 40 while being the least filling of all the foods I analyzed!
But common sense says that cake would be classified as a “dirty bulk” food, which I’m trying to avoid. If it’s not dirty for its glycemic index, what makes it dirty? Is it because cake has a “dirty” kind of fat, or is there something bad about sugar besides its glycemic index?
Just going off of the points I listed, eating cake to bulk up isn’t “dirty”, except for tooth decay. That’s because
Cake has a low glycemic index, I think because it has a lot of fat?
I would be getting enough nutrients from the rest of what I eat; cake would make up the surplus.
The whole point of me eating cake is to get more calories, so this point is nil.
Ascorbic acid seems to be involved in carbohydrate metabolism, or at least in glucose metabolism, which may be why the small amounts of vitamin C in an all meat diet seem to be sufficient to avoid scurvy—negligible carbohydrate intake means reduced levels of vitamin C. Both raw unfiltered honey and fruits seem like they don’t cause the kind of metabolic derangement attributed to foods high in refined carbohydrates like refined grains and sugar. Empirically high-carbohydrate foods in the ancestral diet are usually high in vitamin C. Honey seems like an exception, but there might be other poorly understood micronutrients in it that help as well. So it seems probable but not certain that taking in a lot of carbohydrates without a corresponding increase in vitamin C (and/or possibly other micronutrients they tend to come with in fresh fruit) could lead to problems.
Seeds (including grains) also tend to have high concentrations of antinutrients, plant defense chemicals, and hard to digest or allergenic proteins (these are not mutually exclusive categories), so it might be problematic in the long run to get a large percentage of your calories from cake for that reason. Additionally, some B vitamins like thiamine are important for carbohydrate metabolism, so if your sponge cake is not made from a fortified flour, you may want to take a B vitamin supplement.
Finally, sponge cake can be made with or without a variety of adulterants and preservatives, and with higher-quality or lower-quality fats. There is some reason to believe that seed and vegetable oils are particularly prone to oxidation and may activate torporific pathways causing lower energy and favoring accumulation of body fat over other uses for your caloric intake, but I haven’t investigated enough to be confident that this is true.
I wouldn’t recommend worrying about glycemic index, as it’s not clear high glycemic index causes problems. If your metabolism isn’t disordered, your pancreas should be able to release an appropriate amount of insulin, causing the excess blood sugar to be stored in fat or muscle cells. If it is disordered, I’d prioritize fixing that over whatever you’re trying to do with a “bulk.” Seems worth reflecting on the theory behind a “bulk,” though, as if you’re trying to increase muscle mass, I think the current research suggests that you want to:
Take in enough protein
Take in enough leucine at one time to trigger muscle protein synthesis
Take in enough calories to sustain your activity level
There is no consensus on the cause of metabolic syndrome (which is responsible for great amounts of cardiovascular disease and cognitive decline), but some experts like UCSF professor Robert Lustig, MD, believe that the main cause is fructose in the diet. Table sugar is half fructose and about half of the carbs in most fruits and vegetables is also fructose (with apples and pears being about 70% fructose and cherries being about 30%).
Cultures that have traditionally relied heavily on carbs, e.g., East Asia, traditionally get almost all of their carbs from starchy food that contain zero fructose. Also, fructose is about 7 times worse than glucose at producing advanced glycation end products (AGEs).
I find it difficult to cram in enough calories per day, so most of my calories come from fat and protein at the moment. I’m not getting enough carbs.
Why do you believe that you need calories from carbs to bulk?
I personally created a mix that might interesting for you as well that has a lot of calories but isn’t very filling:
300ml water + 30ml Liquid Aminoacids + 30ml peanut oil + ~5ml honey + one spoon of pulverized beetroot powder
Theoretically, it makes a lot of sense to me that consuming amino acids is less filling than consuming proteins because the body doesn’t need to do work to break them down. That also seems to match my experience that I can easily drink it after another meal.
Generally consuming oil directly doesn’t taste good and amino acids directly also doesn’t taste very good, but mixing them together tastes a lot better.
I used to consume thousands of calories of pure sugar (mixed with water) for long gym days. I did this in line with recommendations for athletes that simpler carbohydrates are better for endurance activity for their ease of digestion and because the calories were used to fuel exercise as opposed to being converted to excess adipose tissue. Cake is typically ‘dirty’ in my opinion because regular consumption of cake tends to not be correlated with a healthful diet and because the calories that cake takes up can push out more nutrient-dense foods, but cake, and most all ‘foods,’ I don’t think are bad per se but only insofar as they contribute to a dietary pattern that is lacking in nutrients. But if you’re bulking and are adequately meeting nutrition targets then eating calorically dense foods is, I think, neutral wrt health, though eating lots of fatty nuts might be more healthful. Lmk if studies for any of the above claims would be helpful, and for a less evidence-based example, I think of Michael Phelps eating lots of candy and ‘unhealthy’ foods when training.
Does anyone know whether added sugar is bad for you if you ignore the following points?
It spikes your blood sugar quickly (it has a high glycemic index)
It doesn’t have any nutrients, but it does have calories
It does not make you feel full, so it makes it easier to eat more calories, and
It increases tooth decay.
I’m asking because I’m trying to figure out what carbohydrate-dense foods to eat when I’m bulking. I find it difficult to cram in enough calories per day, so most of my calories come from fat and protein at the moment. I’m not getting enough carbs. But most “carby foods for bulking” (e.g. potatoes, rice) are very filling! E.g., a cup of rice has 200 kcal, but a cup of nuts has 800.
I did some stats to figure out what carby foods have a low glycemic index but also a low satiation index, i.e. how quickly they make you feel full. My analysis showed that sponge cake was a great choice, having a glycemic index of only 40 while being the least filling of all the foods I analyzed!
But common sense says that cake would be classified as a “dirty bulk” food, which I’m trying to avoid. If it’s not dirty for its glycemic index, what makes it dirty? Is it because cake has a “dirty” kind of fat, or is there something bad about sugar besides its glycemic index?
Just going off of the points I listed, eating cake to bulk up isn’t “dirty”, except for tooth decay. That’s because
Cake has a low glycemic index, I think because it has a lot of fat?
I would be getting enough nutrients from the rest of what I eat; cake would make up the surplus.
The whole point of me eating cake is to get more calories, so this point is nil.
What am I missing?
Ascorbic acid seems to be involved in carbohydrate metabolism, or at least in glucose metabolism, which may be why the small amounts of vitamin C in an all meat diet seem to be sufficient to avoid scurvy—negligible carbohydrate intake means reduced levels of vitamin C. Both raw unfiltered honey and fruits seem like they don’t cause the kind of metabolic derangement attributed to foods high in refined carbohydrates like refined grains and sugar. Empirically high-carbohydrate foods in the ancestral diet are usually high in vitamin C. Honey seems like an exception, but there might be other poorly understood micronutrients in it that help as well. So it seems probable but not certain that taking in a lot of carbohydrates without a corresponding increase in vitamin C (and/or possibly other micronutrients they tend to come with in fresh fruit) could lead to problems.
Seeds (including grains) also tend to have high concentrations of antinutrients, plant defense chemicals, and hard to digest or allergenic proteins (these are not mutually exclusive categories), so it might be problematic in the long run to get a large percentage of your calories from cake for that reason. Additionally, some B vitamins like thiamine are important for carbohydrate metabolism, so if your sponge cake is not made from a fortified flour, you may want to take a B vitamin supplement.
Finally, sponge cake can be made with or without a variety of adulterants and preservatives, and with higher-quality or lower-quality fats. There is some reason to believe that seed and vegetable oils are particularly prone to oxidation and may activate torporific pathways causing lower energy and favoring accumulation of body fat over other uses for your caloric intake, but I haven’t investigated enough to be confident that this is true.
I wouldn’t recommend worrying about glycemic index, as it’s not clear high glycemic index causes problems. If your metabolism isn’t disordered, your pancreas should be able to release an appropriate amount of insulin, causing the excess blood sugar to be stored in fat or muscle cells. If it is disordered, I’d prioritize fixing that over whatever you’re trying to do with a “bulk.” Seems worth reflecting on the theory behind a “bulk,” though, as if you’re trying to increase muscle mass, I think the current research suggests that you want to:
Take in enough protein
Take in enough leucine at one time to trigger muscle protein synthesis
Take in enough calories to sustain your activity level
There is no consensus on the cause of metabolic syndrome (which is responsible for great amounts of cardiovascular disease and cognitive decline), but some experts like UCSF professor Robert Lustig, MD, believe that the main cause is fructose in the diet. Table sugar is half fructose and about half of the carbs in most fruits and vegetables is also fructose (with apples and pears being about 70% fructose and cherries being about 30%).
Cultures that have traditionally relied heavily on carbs, e.g., East Asia, traditionally get almost all of their carbs from starchy food that contain zero fructose. Also, fructose is about 7 times worse than glucose at producing advanced glycation end products (AGEs).
Why do you believe that you need calories from carbs to bulk?
I personally created a mix that might interesting for you as well that has a lot of calories but isn’t very filling:
300ml water + 30ml Liquid Aminoacids + 30ml peanut oil + ~5ml honey + one spoon of pulverized beetroot powder
Theoretically, it makes a lot of sense to me that consuming amino acids is less filling than consuming proteins because the body doesn’t need to do work to break them down. That also seems to match my experience that I can easily drink it after another meal.
Generally consuming oil directly doesn’t taste good and amino acids directly also doesn’t taste very good, but mixing them together tastes a lot better.
Could you give specific examples for the liquid amino acids you use?
I personally use https://www.amazon.de/Mammut-Amino-Liquid-Flasche-Pack/dp/B01M0M12VS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=LGXT0V1X6YSO&keywords=mammut+amino+liquid&qid=1688664335&sprefix=mammut+amino+%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-5 and picked it mainly because it was the cheapest available on Amazon.
I used to consume thousands of calories of pure sugar (mixed with water) for long gym days. I did this in line with recommendations for athletes that simpler carbohydrates are better for endurance activity for their ease of digestion and because the calories were used to fuel exercise as opposed to being converted to excess adipose tissue. Cake is typically ‘dirty’ in my opinion because regular consumption of cake tends to not be correlated with a healthful diet and because the calories that cake takes up can push out more nutrient-dense foods, but cake, and most all ‘foods,’ I don’t think are bad per se but only insofar as they contribute to a dietary pattern that is lacking in nutrients. But if you’re bulking and are adequately meeting nutrition targets then eating calorically dense foods is, I think, neutral wrt health, though eating lots of fatty nuts might be more healthful. Lmk if studies for any of the above claims would be helpful, and for a less evidence-based example, I think of Michael Phelps eating lots of candy and ‘unhealthy’ foods when training.