I think you should be careful to keep separate your theories or the explanations of “experts” from what is demonstrated. If you rely on authority, you are destined to propagate crowd think.
Its a fact that the only RPC study I know of that injected a vaccine or a genuine placebo into children and followed their health (not whether they got some specific disease) for more than a few months, reported vaccine recipients got 4 times as many respiratory illnesses as placebo recipients. This fact suggests to me not only that vaccines are causing collateral immune system damage, but also that the vaccine literature is hopelessly confirmation biased. The fact that even after this study nobody has repeated it with other flu vaccines is also of interest.
It certainly wouldn’t be surprising a priori that vaccines cause collateral immune system damage, especially in developing children. And I cited a literature indicating reasons for believing this and mechanisms. Where is the evidence against?
As to your comments on the animal studies, I think there are plenty of animal studies that are injecting less into the animals than kids often get. The mouse aluminum study specifically scaled the aluminum by weight and studied both Swedish and American. The studies causing auto-immune disease in non-auto-immune mice are just using 8 injections, not 49 or whatever the kids get. And again, where is the data on the other side?
Also, btw, Hewitson injected macaques with placebo or off the shelf vaccines, and scanned their brains 6 months later, and she reported the ones with vaccines were brain damaged as well. That experiment appeared 5 years ago, hasn’t been repeated either.
Its a fact that the only RPC study I know of that injected a vaccine or a genuine placebo into children and followed their health (not whether they got some specific disease) for more than a few months, reported vaccine recipients got 4 times as many respiratory illnesses as placebo recipients.
He explained this in the comment.
Are you actually going to respond to anything CellBioGuy said? I’m mildly curious if you are at all able to explicitly state when a piece of evidence doesn’t support the position you thought it did and update your position accordingly. If not, continuing to discuss this is highly unlikely to be unproductive.
He “explained it in the comment” ? He responded with various explanations, which are at best theories.
I stated facts.
I didn’t see any pieces of evidence I stated that don’t support the position I think they do. Can you name one?
You think the fact that every animal study injecting animals with viral mimics or aluminum or the like that has been pointed out to exist, all find damage, do you think that supports the vaccine safety position?
You think the fact that the only RPC study injecting children with a vaccine or a placebo and following their health reports vaccine getters got 4 times as much infectious disease supports vaccine safety?
Or maybe after the explanations it supports vaccine safety? Is that your point?
I’m big on changing my mind. I changed my mind big time, from vaxxing my first two kids to understanding that was a huge mistake. I’ve changed my mind on many other important things too. You all seem resistant. I’ve offered lots of evidence you should change your minds, none of you have offered even an iota of evidence in support of the vaccine safety position. At best you’ve offered rationalizations about the damning evidence I’ve offered. But mostly you’ve just complained that you didn’t like my tone.
You seem to be missing my primary point. Your reply and the part I quoted was:
Its a fact that the only RPC study I know of that injected a vaccine or a genuine placebo into children and followed their health (not whether they got some specific disease) for more than a few months, reported vaccine recipients got 4 times as many respiratory illnesses as placebo recipients.
Which as written seems oblivious to CellBioGuy actually discussing that very paper. You completely ignored it, which has to make me wonder how much of the rest of what he wrote you actually paid attention to.
I’m big on changing my mind. I changed my mind big time, from vaxxing my first two kids to understanding that was a huge mistake. I’ve changed my mind on many other important things too.
Take an outside view for a moment. A new account comes to a forum, claims that they changed their mind to some fringe position, and keeps arguing for that position, and does literally nothing else on the forum other than argue for that single position. How do you think people will interpret that?
I still don’t understand your point. I responded to what he wrote. I said it was at best a bunch of theories. What part of it do you think has some basis in reality? Why should we trust it? BTW, I don’t understand how the self reporting is even relevant, since the patients didn’t know if they had a placebo. Even if all those explanations are true, does that mean the vaccine didn’t damage the immune systems, given that in a blind experiment you got 4.4 times as much disease?
You said some piece of evidence I cited didn’t support the point I thought it did, so I still want to know what one that is.
I guess you are saying the fact that the only RCP test ever conducted on a vaccine (to the best of our knowledge) that looked at actual health, found the patients getting the vaccine much less healthy, (which by the way is supported by lots of other results showing vaccines do collateral damage to the immune system, its hardly an outlier) which is the evidence I cited,
you are I guess saying this didn’t support my case because the authors of the study wrote various speculations that might have partially explained some of it, although a factor of 4.4 takes a lot of explaining, so I doubt it.
Its a fact that the only RPC study I know of that injected a vaccine or a genuine placebo into children and followed their health (not whether they got some specific disease) for more than a few months, reported vaccine recipients got 4 times as many respiratory illnesses as placebo recipients
You wrote that in response to a comment which specifically talked about the study in question, but made no effort to actually address the point about that study. That’s completely failing to engage in the argument in question and makes one have to wonder if you actually read what he wrote to notice he talked about that same study.
I think you should be careful to keep separate your theories or the explanations of “experts” from what is demonstrated. If you rely on authority, you are destined to propagate crowd think.
Its a fact that the only RPC study I know of that injected a vaccine or a genuine placebo into children and followed their health (not whether they got some specific disease) for more than a few months, reported vaccine recipients got 4 times as many respiratory illnesses as placebo recipients. This fact suggests to me not only that vaccines are causing collateral immune system damage, but also that the vaccine literature is hopelessly confirmation biased. The fact that even after this study nobody has repeated it with other flu vaccines is also of interest.
It certainly wouldn’t be surprising a priori that vaccines cause collateral immune system damage, especially in developing children. And I cited a literature indicating reasons for believing this and mechanisms. Where is the evidence against?
As to your comments on the animal studies, I think there are plenty of animal studies that are injecting less into the animals than kids often get. The mouse aluminum study specifically scaled the aluminum by weight and studied both Swedish and American. The studies causing auto-immune disease in non-auto-immune mice are just using 8 injections, not 49 or whatever the kids get. And again, where is the data on the other side?
Also, btw, Hewitson injected macaques with placebo or off the shelf vaccines, and scanned their brains 6 months later, and she reported the ones with vaccines were brain damaged as well. That experiment appeared 5 years ago, hasn’t been repeated either.
He explained this in the comment.
Are you actually going to respond to anything CellBioGuy said? I’m mildly curious if you are at all able to explicitly state when a piece of evidence doesn’t support the position you thought it did and update your position accordingly. If not, continuing to discuss this is highly unlikely to be unproductive.
He “explained it in the comment” ? He responded with various explanations, which are at best theories. I stated facts.
I didn’t see any pieces of evidence I stated that don’t support the position I think they do. Can you name one?
You think the fact that every animal study injecting animals with viral mimics or aluminum or the like that has been pointed out to exist, all find damage, do you think that supports the vaccine safety position? You think the fact that the only RPC study injecting children with a vaccine or a placebo and following their health reports vaccine getters got 4 times as much infectious disease supports vaccine safety? Or maybe after the explanations it supports vaccine safety? Is that your point?
I’m big on changing my mind. I changed my mind big time, from vaxxing my first two kids to understanding that was a huge mistake. I’ve changed my mind on many other important things too. You all seem resistant. I’ve offered lots of evidence you should change your minds, none of you have offered even an iota of evidence in support of the vaccine safety position. At best you’ve offered rationalizations about the damning evidence I’ve offered. But mostly you’ve just complained that you didn’t like my tone.
You seem to be missing my primary point. Your reply and the part I quoted was:
Which as written seems oblivious to CellBioGuy actually discussing that very paper. You completely ignored it, which has to make me wonder how much of the rest of what he wrote you actually paid attention to.
Take an outside view for a moment. A new account comes to a forum, claims that they changed their mind to some fringe position, and keeps arguing for that position, and does literally nothing else on the forum other than argue for that single position. How do you think people will interpret that?
I still don’t understand your point. I responded to what he wrote. I said it was at best a bunch of theories. What part of it do you think has some basis in reality? Why should we trust it? BTW, I don’t understand how the self reporting is even relevant, since the patients didn’t know if they had a placebo. Even if all those explanations are true, does that mean the vaccine didn’t damage the immune systems, given that in a blind experiment you got 4.4 times as much disease?
You said some piece of evidence I cited didn’t support the point I thought it did, so I still want to know what one that is.
I guess you are saying the fact that the only RCP test ever conducted on a vaccine (to the best of our knowledge) that looked at actual health, found the patients getting the vaccine much less healthy, (which by the way is supported by lots of other results showing vaccines do collateral damage to the immune system, its hardly an outlier) which is the evidence I cited,
you are I guess saying this didn’t support my case because the authors of the study wrote various speculations that might have partially explained some of it, although a factor of 4.4 takes a lot of explaining, so I doubt it.
Is that your point? Can you spell it out?
I thought I was being explicit. You wrote:
You wrote that in response to a comment which specifically talked about the study in question, but made no effort to actually address the point about that study. That’s completely failing to engage in the argument in question and makes one have to wonder if you actually read what he wrote to notice he talked about that same study.