[Alice’s] witchcraft is very powerful so the Volturi would be interested in keeping her, but then again Jasper claims to have felt her die. She may have been considered too powerful and uncooperative to let live.
I don’t know about too powerful in the absolute sense, but I do know that her power would definitely let her escape. She could effectively brute-force a plan to escape by thinking about plans to escape. The cost to test a plan’s chance of success is effectively nil for her—given enough time (minutes?) she could have a foolproof escape plan.
Plus, once she’s escaped and now opposed to the Volturi, she could set up traps for Demetri and other hunters—traps that are basically guaranteed to work.
Alice can probably still do a fairly good job of avoiding hunting parties, by deliberately and constantly forecasting on herself (and anyone else she wants to protect) and making some radical change if she sees herself (or other person) going blank for reasons not understood (such as if that person is hanging out around wolves/half-vampires anyway). It would be a security risk to do so, given that a blank Volturi hunting party would not make any different signature than a blank, friendly wolf or half-vampire.
I understand that in canon, Bella is able to shield others as well as herself. Would an Alice being so shielded be able to see wolves/half-vampires? That would be a convenient solution, so probably not.
Yes. And should Alice be alive and out and about to the Volturi’s knowledge, then they would probably try to send at least one of these people with every hunting group, to prevent any forewarning visions. I wonder if Alice’s visions can’t be affected the same as Bella’s shield though. If she started believing she should be able to see the half-kinds in her visions would she? - any comments on that Alicorn?
In canon, one of the reasons it was speculated that Alice’s visions blanked on half-vamps and werewolves was that she had never been one—she used to be a human, even if she can’t remember it, and she was a vampire, but she has never been either of the other two.
But at this point, Elspeth is running around with plenty of memories of at least two half-vamps (including herself) and at least one wolf (as Edward stated that he could read Aro reading Rachel in ch 55 of Luminosity[1]. It’s also possible that Aro’s touch-telepathy would work through the involuntary telepathy of the wolves to read all of them at once, but that’s not highly relevant at this exact moment). She also has the ability to share those memories.
It could be that if Elspeth shares those memories with Alice, Alice will then be able remove those blank spots from her visions, as having years of memories, years of experiences, from these kinds of being that she never has been is enough to overcome that obstacle. Or it could be that despite how much she would remember being a werewolf, she still never actually was a werewolf, any more than she ever was a male, and the blanks would be unaffected. Or it could be that her power works on some other basis completely, and this whole line of inquiry is a dead end, if an interesting one.
[1] I may be mistaken here, as ch 31 of Radiance confirms that Elspeth has Allirea’s memories, meaning that Addy read Aro who had read Allirea in the past 5 and a half years, but that might have been before the wolves were captured, which was, I believe, around five years ago...My grasp on the timeline may well be in error here, but I am curious.
Er, wait, when Elspeth blasted Demetri, she hit him with “the last five and a half years of Allirea’s life.” So...Allirea had been w/ the Volturi for five and a half years the last time Addy read Aro, which was...May 26 (ch 21 & 30). So Aro almost certainly has memories of werewolves, thus Adddy did, thus Elspeth does.
Here are the broad strokes. (Let me know if you want the dates of other events.)
January 17, 2005: Luminosity opens.
October 2005: Assorted hell breaks loose (partial list in order: Irina finds out who killed Laurent and tips off the Volturi; the Volturi descend upon the wolves; Jacob summons Bella; the Volturi send Demetri looking for Nahuel’s sisters; he finds them and helps himself to Allirea).
November 4, 2005: With Allirea in tow, the Volturi nab Alice.
April 4, 2006: Bella encounters Jasper.
May 10, 2006: Bella finds Elspeth.
May 20, 2011: Radiance opens.
May 26, 2011: Last date of Addy touching Aro. Aro was reasonably up-to-date (within a month or two) on the Volturi and Volturi guard at this time, including Allirea. He doesn’t keep quite so up-to-date, temporally speaking, on the wolves, but as of this date he has read all the then-in-village alphas and imprints (as they came in, to determine how to cover up their disappearance to the wider world), and about half of the village wolves who were activated when first brought in.
May 27, 2011: Elspeth and Jacob’s pack are captured in New York.
May 28, 2011: Elspeth and Allirea jailbreak.
May 30, 2011: Elspeth & co. arrive in Denali. IT’S A TRAP! Some hours afterward, Bella shows up, encounters Allirea and Eleazar, and gets the former out of there.
June 8, 2011: Elspeth is first recruited as assistant brainwasher.
July 1, 2011: The events of “Weaver” take place.
July 3, 2011: Demetri starts looking for Allirea.
July 4, 2011 (no pun intended): Addy is sentenced to death and memory-blasts the Volturi compound and escapes with Elspeth and Jacob.
July 8, 2011: Elspeth’s current party arrives in Alaska.
Thank you, this is very helpful. (edit: Erm, out of curiosity, when was Addy picked up by the Volturi? Please and thanks.)
So Elspeth certainly has several sets of memories from werewolves, on top of the half-vamp memories she has from Allirea and herself, at least. It’s possible for the theory to be tested in-universe, then, dependent on getting Alice back on their side.
I don’t know about too powerful in the absolute sense, but I do know that her power would definitely let her escape. She could effectively brute-force a plan to escape by thinking about plans to escape. The cost to test a plan’s chance of success is effectively nil for her—given enough time (minutes?) she could have a foolproof escape plan.
Plus, once she’s escaped and now opposed to the Volturi, she could set up traps for Demetri and other hunters—traps that are basically guaranteed to work.
Remember that there are lots of people running around who completely blank out Alice’s visions.
Alice can probably still do a fairly good job of avoiding hunting parties, by deliberately and constantly forecasting on herself (and anyone else she wants to protect) and making some radical change if she sees herself (or other person) going blank for reasons not understood (such as if that person is hanging out around wolves/half-vampires anyway). It would be a security risk to do so, given that a blank Volturi hunting party would not make any different signature than a blank, friendly wolf or half-vampire.
I understand that in canon, Bella is able to shield others as well as herself. Would an Alice being so shielded be able to see wolves/half-vampires? That would be a convenient solution, so probably not.
No. This would almost certainly have been mentioned in canon if it were possible, so it’s not.
Yes. And should Alice be alive and out and about to the Volturi’s knowledge, then they would probably try to send at least one of these people with every hunting group, to prevent any forewarning visions. I wonder if Alice’s visions can’t be affected the same as Bella’s shield though. If she started believing she should be able to see the half-kinds in her visions would she? - any comments on that Alicorn?
No public comments, no.
Something just occurred to me.
In canon, one of the reasons it was speculated that Alice’s visions blanked on half-vamps and werewolves was that she had never been one—she used to be a human, even if she can’t remember it, and she was a vampire, but she has never been either of the other two.
But at this point, Elspeth is running around with plenty of memories of at least two half-vamps (including herself) and at least one wolf (as Edward stated that he could read Aro reading Rachel in ch 55 of Luminosity[1]. It’s also possible that Aro’s touch-telepathy would work through the involuntary telepathy of the wolves to read all of them at once, but that’s not highly relevant at this exact moment). She also has the ability to share those memories.
It could be that if Elspeth shares those memories with Alice, Alice will then be able remove those blank spots from her visions, as having years of memories, years of experiences, from these kinds of being that she never has been is enough to overcome that obstacle. Or it could be that despite how much she would remember being a werewolf, she still never actually was a werewolf, any more than she ever was a male, and the blanks would be unaffected. Or it could be that her power works on some other basis completely, and this whole line of inquiry is a dead end, if an interesting one.
[1] I may be mistaken here, as ch 31 of Radiance confirms that Elspeth has Allirea’s memories, meaning that Addy read Aro who had read Allirea in the past 5 and a half years, but that might have been before the wolves were captured, which was, I believe, around five years ago...My grasp on the timeline may well be in error here, but I am curious.
Er, wait, when Elspeth blasted Demetri, she hit him with “the last five and a half years of Allirea’s life.” So...Allirea had been w/ the Volturi for five and a half years the last time Addy read Aro, which was...May 26 (ch 21 & 30). So Aro almost certainly has memories of werewolves, thus Adddy did, thus Elspeth does.
Did I miss anything?
Here are the broad strokes. (Let me know if you want the dates of other events.)
January 17, 2005: Luminosity opens.
October 2005: Assorted hell breaks loose (partial list in order: Irina finds out who killed Laurent and tips off the Volturi; the Volturi descend upon the wolves; Jacob summons Bella; the Volturi send Demetri looking for Nahuel’s sisters; he finds them and helps himself to Allirea).
November 4, 2005: With Allirea in tow, the Volturi nab Alice.
April 4, 2006: Bella encounters Jasper.
May 10, 2006: Bella finds Elspeth.
May 20, 2011: Radiance opens.
May 26, 2011: Last date of Addy touching Aro. Aro was reasonably up-to-date (within a month or two) on the Volturi and Volturi guard at this time, including Allirea. He doesn’t keep quite so up-to-date, temporally speaking, on the wolves, but as of this date he has read all the then-in-village alphas and imprints (as they came in, to determine how to cover up their disappearance to the wider world), and about half of the village wolves who were activated when first brought in.
May 27, 2011: Elspeth and Jacob’s pack are captured in New York.
May 28, 2011: Elspeth and Allirea jailbreak.
May 30, 2011: Elspeth & co. arrive in Denali. IT’S A TRAP! Some hours afterward, Bella shows up, encounters Allirea and Eleazar, and gets the former out of there.
June 8, 2011: Elspeth is first recruited as assistant brainwasher.
July 1, 2011: The events of “Weaver” take place.
July 3, 2011: Demetri starts looking for Allirea.
July 4, 2011 (no pun intended): Addy is sentenced to death and memory-blasts the Volturi compound and escapes with Elspeth and Jacob.
July 8, 2011: Elspeth’s current party arrives in Alaska.
Thank you, this is very helpful. (edit: Erm, out of curiosity, when was Addy picked up by the Volturi? Please and thanks.)
So Elspeth certainly has several sets of memories from werewolves, on top of the half-vamp memories she has from Allirea and herself, at least. It’s possible for the theory to be tested in-universe, then, dependent on getting Alice back on their side.
That’s a shame, because it’s fairly hilarious.