I was in a few long-term relationship in my early twenties when I myself wasn’t mature/aware enough for selfless dating. Then, after a 4-year relationship that was very explicit-rules based had ended, I went on about 25 first dates in the space of about 1 year before meeting my wife. Basically all of those 25 didn’t work because of a lack of mutual interest, not because we both tried to make it a long-term thing but failed to hunt stag.
If I was single today, I would date not through OkCupid as I did back in 2014 but through the intellectual communities I’m part of now. And with the sort of women I would like to date in these communities I would certainly talk about things like selfless dating (and dating philosophy in general) on a first date. Of course, I am unusually blessed in the communities I’m part of (including Rationality).
A lot of my evidence comes from hearing other people’s stories, both positive and negative. I’ve been writing fairly popular posts on dating for half a decade now, and I’ve had both close friends and anonymous online strangers in the dozens share their dating stories and struggles with me. For people who seem generally in a good place to go in the selfless direction the main pitfalls seem to be insecurity spirals and forgetting to communicate.
The former is when people are unable to give their partner the benefit of the doubt on a transgression, which usually stems from their own insecurity. Then they act more selfishly themselves, which causes the partner to be more selfish in turn, and the whole thing spirals.
The latter is when people who hit a good spot stop talking about their wants and needs. As those change they end up with a stale model of each other. Then they inevitably end up making bad decisions and don’t understand why their idyll is deteriorating.
To address your general tone: I am lucky in my dating life, and my post (as I wrote in the OP itself) doesn’t by itself constitute enough evidence for an outside-view update that selfless relationships are better. If this speaks to you intuitively, hopefully this post is an inspiration. If it doesn’t, hopefully it at least informs you of an alternative. But my goal isn’t to prove anything to a rationalist standard, in part because I think this way of thinking is not really helpful in the realm of dating where every person’s journey must be unique.
I was in a few long-term relationship in my early twenties when I myself wasn’t mature/aware enough for selfless dating. Then, after a 4-year relationship that was very explicit-rules based had ended, I went on about 25 first dates in the space of about 1 year before meeting my wife. Basically all of those 25 didn’t work because of a lack of mutual interest, not because we both tried to make it a long-term thing but failed to hunt stag.
If I was single today, I would date not through OkCupid as I did back in 2014 but through the intellectual communities I’m part of now. And with the sort of women I would like to date in these communities I would certainly talk about things like selfless dating (and dating philosophy in general) on a first date. Of course, I am unusually blessed in the communities I’m part of (including Rationality).
A lot of my evidence comes from hearing other people’s stories, both positive and negative. I’ve been writing fairly popular posts on dating for half a decade now, and I’ve had both close friends and anonymous online strangers in the dozens share their dating stories and struggles with me. For people who seem generally in a good place to go in the selfless direction the main pitfalls seem to be insecurity spirals and forgetting to communicate.
The former is when people are unable to give their partner the benefit of the doubt on a transgression, which usually stems from their own insecurity. Then they act more selfishly themselves, which causes the partner to be more selfish in turn, and the whole thing spirals.
The latter is when people who hit a good spot stop talking about their wants and needs. As those change they end up with a stale model of each other. Then they inevitably end up making bad decisions and don’t understand why their idyll is deteriorating.
To address your general tone: I am lucky in my dating life, and my post (as I wrote in the OP itself) doesn’t by itself constitute enough evidence for an outside-view update that selfless relationships are better. If this speaks to you intuitively, hopefully this post is an inspiration. If it doesn’t, hopefully it at least informs you of an alternative. But my goal isn’t to prove anything to a rationalist standard, in part because I think this way of thinking is not really helpful in the realm of dating where every person’s journey must be unique.