1) I work in an environment where problems can’t really be left unsolved. Although I kind of appreciate the Serenity Prayer, it’s one of those sentiments which I think belongs to other people.
If I experience dismay about a problem, I know it’s something which I can probably rectify but don’t want the hastle of having to deal with, (c.f. courage). If it’s something I actively dread, I know I’m being given responsibility for something which is probably beyond my ability to solve (I’m not sure serenity is quite what I need in this case; resigned dour commitment, maybe). Distinguishing between the two is just a matter of knowledge on a case-by-case basis. I don’t think there’s any general wisdom for sorting them. I don’t think problems generalise that way.
If I were a theist, I think I’d probably just pray for problems with satisfying solutions.
2) There’s a colloquialism you may or may not be familiar with called a “dick-move”. I have had a lot of cause to use this term recently, and have concordantly been thinking about it a lot. Doing something which gains you a minor benefit at enormous cost to another person is a dick-move. I am a little annoyed that I haven’t found a better convenient term for it in utilitarian or economic lexicons. If you know of one, please tell me.
(Edited to add: I’m aware of a number of economic concepts this is an example of, but I’m not aware of an exactly analogous term. The closest I can come up with is “negative-sum negative externality”, which is so cumbersome I’d rather use “dick-move”)
I think a reasonable request is one that’s based on a reasonable transaction. When I reap a benefit at a cost to you, I’m putting a value on your discomfort. Being thrifty with your discomfort and spending it wisely makes me a good friend and ally. If I spend your discomfort haphazardly and carelessly, it makes me a liability to be around. If I make a request which undervalues your discomfort, I’m being cheeky. If I force that undervalued discomfort on you, I’m pulling a dick-move.
Not much to contribute on (3), as my frequent falling asleep on public transport can attest to.
Two and a half years later but, past-self, the term you’re looking for is “Kaldor-Hicks inefficiency”. It’s part of cost-benefit analysis, and means the gains to the winning party from an intervention are not sufficient to compensate the losses of others.
That’s true. I don’t think there’s any general solution, to be sure, but I’m not convinced there aren’t any good heuristics.
When I reap a benefit at a cost to you, I’m putting a value on your discomfort. Being thrifty with your discomfort and spending it wisely makes me a good friend and ally.
Indeed. So another form of the question might be, how do we judge others’ potential discomfort (or inconvenience) in a way that we can compare to the benefit?
as my frequent falling asleep on public transport can attest to
Actually, there’s a point hidden in that. One can get rest, pleasure, and other short-term happiness in times when it would not be feasible to do more immediately productive work. On public transit is a good example of those times.
So another form of the question might be, how do we judge others’ potential discomfort (or inconvenience) in a way that we can compare to the benefit?
There’s a neat little tie-in between #1 and #2 here: In #1 we can’t judge how hard a task is for ourselves, and in #2 we can’t judge how hard a task is for someone else. How do we normally solve judgment problems where we’re missing key information?
There’s a neat little tie-in between #1 and #2 here
Well spotted.
How do we normally solve judgment problems where we’re missing key information?
Well, the general answer is “use heuristics in the absence of facts.” Specifically, we try to find parallels to other situations and then borrow values from those to use as estimates. Can you think of anything else?
Every time I try to reply to this, it turns into something massive. In a nutshell, I reckon it’s probably safe to apply a roughly symmetrist policy to making requests, provided the requests are in an area you’re familiar with, and you understand exactly what it is you’re asking the requestee to do.
I draw this conclusion from an area I’m sure a lot of LWers can empathise with: being asked for advice about computer-related problems from technically illiterate friends and family. I’ve come up with about half a dozen ‘failure modes’ for these requests, and they all seem to boil down to the person making the request not knowing the enormity of what they’re asking for.
I’m reminded of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, specifically how the skills required to know how difficult a task is are the same skills required to actually do it. In the absence of the skill in question, (provided you recognise you don’t have it), it’s probably a good policy to simply ask someone how much of a pain the request would be before asking them if they’ll do it.
That’s a good point—being aware that, the less you know about the topic, the less equipped you are to judge the difficulty of the change or the value of the favor.
Luckily, I know just little enough about computers that when my famliy asks me for help (which isn’t too often—my parents have been using computers longer than I have), I can often just honestly say “I don’t know, look it up.” ;) (This worked even better when I was using Linux as a desktop OS and was way out of date with Windows and its common programs.)
A particular favourite of mine was when the mother of an ex-girlfriend rang me up while I was at work to ask for advice in syncing a wii-mote. That was all kinds of wrong.
1) I work in an environment where problems can’t really be left unsolved. Although I kind of appreciate the Serenity Prayer, it’s one of those sentiments which I think belongs to other people.
If I experience dismay about a problem, I know it’s something which I can probably rectify but don’t want the hastle of having to deal with, (c.f. courage). If it’s something I actively dread, I know I’m being given responsibility for something which is probably beyond my ability to solve (I’m not sure serenity is quite what I need in this case; resigned dour commitment, maybe). Distinguishing between the two is just a matter of knowledge on a case-by-case basis. I don’t think there’s any general wisdom for sorting them. I don’t think problems generalise that way.
If I were a theist, I think I’d probably just pray for problems with satisfying solutions.
2) There’s a colloquialism you may or may not be familiar with called a “dick-move”. I have had a lot of cause to use this term recently, and have concordantly been thinking about it a lot. Doing something which gains you a minor benefit at enormous cost to another person is a dick-move. I am a little annoyed that I haven’t found a better convenient term for it in utilitarian or economic lexicons. If you know of one, please tell me.
(Edited to add: I’m aware of a number of economic concepts this is an example of, but I’m not aware of an exactly analogous term. The closest I can come up with is “negative-sum negative externality”, which is so cumbersome I’d rather use “dick-move”)
I think a reasonable request is one that’s based on a reasonable transaction. When I reap a benefit at a cost to you, I’m putting a value on your discomfort. Being thrifty with your discomfort and spending it wisely makes me a good friend and ally. If I spend your discomfort haphazardly and carelessly, it makes me a liability to be around. If I make a request which undervalues your discomfort, I’m being cheeky. If I force that undervalued discomfort on you, I’m pulling a dick-move.
Not much to contribute on (3), as my frequent falling asleep on public transport can attest to.
Two and a half years later but, past-self, the term you’re looking for is “Kaldor-Hicks inefficiency”. It’s part of cost-benefit analysis, and means the gains to the winning party from an intervention are not sufficient to compensate the losses of others.
That’s true. I don’t think there’s any general solution, to be sure, but I’m not convinced there aren’t any good heuristics.
Indeed. So another form of the question might be, how do we judge others’ potential discomfort (or inconvenience) in a way that we can compare to the benefit?
Actually, there’s a point hidden in that. One can get rest, pleasure, and other short-term happiness in times when it would not be feasible to do more immediately productive work. On public transit is a good example of those times.
There’s a neat little tie-in between #1 and #2 here: In #1 we can’t judge how hard a task is for ourselves, and in #2 we can’t judge how hard a task is for someone else. How do we normally solve judgment problems where we’re missing key information?
Well spotted.
Well, the general answer is “use heuristics in the absence of facts.” Specifically, we try to find parallels to other situations and then borrow values from those to use as estimates. Can you think of anything else?
Every time I try to reply to this, it turns into something massive. In a nutshell, I reckon it’s probably safe to apply a roughly symmetrist policy to making requests, provided the requests are in an area you’re familiar with, and you understand exactly what it is you’re asking the requestee to do.
I draw this conclusion from an area I’m sure a lot of LWers can empathise with: being asked for advice about computer-related problems from technically illiterate friends and family. I’ve come up with about half a dozen ‘failure modes’ for these requests, and they all seem to boil down to the person making the request not knowing the enormity of what they’re asking for.
I’m reminded of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, specifically how the skills required to know how difficult a task is are the same skills required to actually do it. In the absence of the skill in question, (provided you recognise you don’t have it), it’s probably a good policy to simply ask someone how much of a pain the request would be before asking them if they’ll do it.
That’s a good point—being aware that, the less you know about the topic, the less equipped you are to judge the difficulty of the change or the value of the favor.
Luckily, I know just little enough about computers that when my famliy asks me for help (which isn’t too often—my parents have been using computers longer than I have), I can often just honestly say “I don’t know, look it up.” ;) (This worked even better when I was using Linux as a desktop OS and was way out of date with Windows and its common programs.)
A particular favourite of mine was when the mother of an ex-girlfriend rang me up while I was at work to ask for advice in syncing a wii-mote. That was all kinds of wrong.