As I understand, the question was about life extension, which does not equal immortality. I have heard a few plausible arguments against immortality, but here it seems that those people are arguing that if we had to choose between living for 80 years and 150 years, we should take 80, for sophisticated reasons. An that is stupidity.
And I don’t think that the general audience is firmly entrenched in sophisticated positions. Most people would gladly accept that the moral question about death is simple. We see few people arguing that cancer is good, even if many those sophisticated arguments for death could be used to support cancer as well. I haven’t also ever seen somebody to argue, on whatever level of sophistication, that e.g. Japan is inferior to Zimbabwe because people in Japan live longer. Once a longer life becomes a real option, everybody will choose it if he can. When people rationalise (early) death as good, it is only because they see the alternatives as only hypothetical.
But what would be the advantages to calling it stupidity in a public debate? I’m skeptical that most people are not fairly entrenched in sophisticated positions on life extension, having argued the matter on several occasions in real life with people outside my own ideological circles. If you want to convince someone to change their mind to adopt a minority opinion, it’s generally most effective to show that you’ve given the matter more consideration than they have, and to avoid any implication that you’re unaware of or have dismissed out of hand any arguments in favor of their position.
While I’ve never heard anyone argue in those words that Japan is inferior to Zimbabwe because people live longer, there’s no shortage of people who will argue that societies like Japan pose more danger to our planet than ones like Zimbabwe, because of the ecological impacts of a first world lifestyle. Longer lives would implicitly be an exacerbating factor. I’m aware of this line of argument, and prepared to argue against it, but if I proclaimed those opposing my position to be stupid without first addressing it or any others they might bring up, then it would tend to give the audience the impression that I had not given the matter adequate consideration, was entrenched in my position, and prepared to rationalize away any arguments against it.
I tend to think that different techniques are needed in the public debate depending on circumstances. Sometimes it is better choice to argue carefully and to show considerable interest in your opponent’s arguments, but sometimes the better way is to confidently declare your position as the only sensible one. People like Dawkins are not popular by chance, their style of arguing has some appeal.
Unfortunately I am not so good at telling which strategy works better for a given audience and situation.
Once a longer life becomes a real option, everybody will choose it if he can.
That is not what currently happens. There are big differences in the way people age, and when they die. Many of them can be linked to lifestyle decisions, some are well researched, and a few even widely known due to public propaganda. And still people smoke. If a quick/fix, a pill, o something that looks like treatment becomes available that might change. But at the moment much of what actually can be done to improve life quality, length, or probability of surviving is just not done.
Depending on the details, many people may even reject “quick fixes that look like treatment” to death and disease.
See for instance the conservative response to the HPV vaccine Gardasil, which prevents the most common strains of the virus that causes genital warts—and thereby drastically reduces the risk of cervical cancer. By providing a “quick fix” to protect sexually active women from a deadly disease, Gardasil reduces the “punishments” available for an action (or “lifestyle”) disapproved by conservatives; therefore, they reject it.
As I understand, the question was about life extension, which does not equal immortality. I have heard a few plausible arguments against immortality, but here it seems that those people are arguing that if we had to choose between living for 80 years and 150 years, we should take 80, for sophisticated reasons. An that is stupidity.
And I don’t think that the general audience is firmly entrenched in sophisticated positions. Most people would gladly accept that the moral question about death is simple. We see few people arguing that cancer is good, even if many those sophisticated arguments for death could be used to support cancer as well. I haven’t also ever seen somebody to argue, on whatever level of sophistication, that e.g. Japan is inferior to Zimbabwe because people in Japan live longer. Once a longer life becomes a real option, everybody will choose it if he can. When people rationalise (early) death as good, it is only because they see the alternatives as only hypothetical.
But what would be the advantages to calling it stupidity in a public debate? I’m skeptical that most people are not fairly entrenched in sophisticated positions on life extension, having argued the matter on several occasions in real life with people outside my own ideological circles. If you want to convince someone to change their mind to adopt a minority opinion, it’s generally most effective to show that you’ve given the matter more consideration than they have, and to avoid any implication that you’re unaware of or have dismissed out of hand any arguments in favor of their position.
While I’ve never heard anyone argue in those words that Japan is inferior to Zimbabwe because people live longer, there’s no shortage of people who will argue that societies like Japan pose more danger to our planet than ones like Zimbabwe, because of the ecological impacts of a first world lifestyle. Longer lives would implicitly be an exacerbating factor. I’m aware of this line of argument, and prepared to argue against it, but if I proclaimed those opposing my position to be stupid without first addressing it or any others they might bring up, then it would tend to give the audience the impression that I had not given the matter adequate consideration, was entrenched in my position, and prepared to rationalize away any arguments against it.
I tend to think that different techniques are needed in the public debate depending on circumstances. Sometimes it is better choice to argue carefully and to show considerable interest in your opponent’s arguments, but sometimes the better way is to confidently declare your position as the only sensible one. People like Dawkins are not popular by chance, their style of arguing has some appeal.
Unfortunately I am not so good at telling which strategy works better for a given audience and situation.
That is not what currently happens. There are big differences in the way people age, and when they die. Many of them can be linked to lifestyle decisions, some are well researched, and a few even widely known due to public propaganda. And still people smoke. If a quick/fix, a pill, o something that looks like treatment becomes available that might change. But at the moment much of what actually can be done to improve life quality, length, or probability of surviving is just not done.
Depending on the details, many people may even reject “quick fixes that look like treatment” to death and disease.
See for instance the conservative response to the HPV vaccine Gardasil, which prevents the most common strains of the virus that causes genital warts—and thereby drastically reduces the risk of cervical cancer. By providing a “quick fix” to protect sexually active women from a deadly disease, Gardasil reduces the “punishments” available for an action (or “lifestyle”) disapproved by conservatives; therefore, they reject it.