I think that other people consider this example as a means to discuss some far more abstract ideas of what is morally right in the situation. This was mentioned in my post as:
Is it appropriate for any person to recline their seat?
To which I said that there is a definite right answer to this question, based on the optimization of some dimension. This is always what is behind morality, in any case—It is just a rule for optimizing something, whether it be autonomy, privacy, etc.
What I should have also said here is that there is absolutely no way anyone is answering this question here. Furthermore, in the circumstance you find yourself reclining upon someone that does not want you to recline or vice versa, the answer to this question does not really matter.
In real, lived life your goal should not be to cause such a stir up in trivial situations like these. It doesn’t matter who is correct in mathematical or philosophical sense. So if someone reclines unto you, ask a few times if they would un-recline a bit. Ask them a few times, but stay polite. If it’s the opposite case, tell them you’ll meet them half way.
I know that people may not see this as the point of the thread. Maybe I’m out of the loop, maybe I’m making something simple that should really be complicated.
Depending on how they act, I might (if I were to fly in a plane) cause enough stirrup to stand up for my rights, taking into account the calculated risk of ending up worse off. There is an externality of signalling to other people what my (and their) rights are, which has additional positive value.
If someone suggested the idea of reducing your recline by 50% politely, would you really, in actual lived life, reply making a protest of your “rights”?
I implore you to really think of what this would be like in real life. Someone nicely asking for this. It’s a long flight.
Also, to consider the views of other people here and the positive effects of your signaling is speculative at best. You don’t know how people will perceive you. Sure, you think you are standing up for what is obviously you right. You have no way to verify this is what other’s believe though.
That just seems like something rather shaky to consider a positive externality. Alternatively, you could maybe make the case that there is always value to protecting your rights, a la MLK’s famous “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere”, and I would salute your courage to die on that hill, as you surely would die.
I, like, I assume, everyone else, occasionally encounter situations of having to speak up in very uncomfortable situations, in “actual lived life.” In this hypothetical situation, I’d probably reduce my recline. I’d speak up if they reclined into me too much, leaving me not enough space.
We never know how other people will perceive us, or the consequences (or, for that matter, what’s right) with certainty. But the null decision (or the decision to do whatever causes the least stirrup) is a decision as well—namely, it’s a decision saying “the balance of evidence is such that I believe the right thing to do is to cause the least stirrup possible” (assuming the idealized case of an agent who optimizes for doing what is right).
That’s not a bad point.
I think that other people consider this example as a means to discuss some far more abstract ideas of what is morally right in the situation. This was mentioned in my post as:
To which I said that there is a definite right answer to this question, based on the optimization of some dimension. This is always what is behind morality, in any case—It is just a rule for optimizing something, whether it be autonomy, privacy, etc.
What I should have also said here is that there is absolutely no way anyone is answering this question here. Furthermore, in the circumstance you find yourself reclining upon someone that does not want you to recline or vice versa, the answer to this question does not really matter.
In real, lived life your goal should not be to cause such a stir up in trivial situations like these. It doesn’t matter who is correct in mathematical or philosophical sense. So if someone reclines unto you, ask a few times if they would un-recline a bit. Ask them a few times, but stay polite. If it’s the opposite case, tell them you’ll meet them half way.
I know that people may not see this as the point of the thread. Maybe I’m out of the loop, maybe I’m making something simple that should really be complicated.
Doing whatever leads to avoiding causing a stirrup is definitely one of the options.
What are some reasonable alternatives in the circumstance that someone is reclining unto your or requesting you un-recline?
Depending on how they act, I might (if I were to fly in a plane) cause enough stirrup to stand up for my rights, taking into account the calculated risk of ending up worse off. There is an externality of signalling to other people what my (and their) rights are, which has additional positive value.
How would they have to act for this to happen?
If someone suggested the idea of reducing your recline by 50% politely, would you really, in actual lived life, reply making a protest of your “rights”?
I implore you to really think of what this would be like in real life. Someone nicely asking for this. It’s a long flight.
Also, to consider the views of other people here and the positive effects of your signaling is speculative at best. You don’t know how people will perceive you. Sure, you think you are standing up for what is obviously you right. You have no way to verify this is what other’s believe though.
That just seems like something rather shaky to consider a positive externality. Alternatively, you could maybe make the case that there is always value to protecting your rights, a la MLK’s famous “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere”, and I would salute your courage to die on that hill, as you surely would die.
I, like, I assume, everyone else, occasionally encounter situations of having to speak up in very uncomfortable situations, in “actual lived life.” In this hypothetical situation, I’d probably reduce my recline. I’d speak up if they reclined into me too much, leaving me not enough space.
We never know how other people will perceive us, or the consequences (or, for that matter, what’s right) with certainty. But the null decision (or the decision to do whatever causes the least stirrup) is a decision as well—namely, it’s a decision saying “the balance of evidence is such that I believe the right thing to do is to cause the least stirrup possible” (assuming the idealized case of an agent who optimizes for doing what is right).