If 100% of humanity are intuitively appalled with an idea, but some of them go ahead and do it anyway, that’s just insanity. If the people going ahead with it think that they need to do it because that’s the morally obligatory thing to do, then they’re fanatic adherents of an insane moral system.
It seems to me that you think that utilitarianism is just abstractly The Right Thing to Do, independently of practical problems, any intuitions to the contrary including your own, and all that. So, why do you think that?
If 100% of humanity are intuitively appalled with an idea, but some of them go ahead and do it anyway, that’s just insanity.
Really? I think almost everyone has things that are intuitively appalling, but they do anyway. Walking by a scruffy, hungry-looking beggar? Drinking alcohol? there’s something that your intuition and your actions disagree on.
Personally, I’m not a utilitarian because I don’t think ANYTHING is the Right Thing to Do—it’s all preferences and private esthetics. But really, if you are a moral realist, you shouldn’t claim that other human’s moral intuitions are binding, you should Do The Right Thing regardless of any disagreement or reprisals. (note: you’re still allowed to not know the Right Thing, but even then you should have some justification other than “feels icky” for whatever you do choose to do).
But, even a moral realist should not have 100% confidence that he/she is correct with respect to what is objectively right to do. The fact that 100% of humanity is morally appalled with an action should at a minimum raise a red flag that the action may not be morally correct.
Similarly, “feeling icky” about something can be a moral intuition that is in disagreement with the course of action dictated by one’s reasoned moral position. it seems to me that “feeling icky” about something is a good reason for a moral realist to reexamine the line of reasoning that led him/her to believe that course of action was morally correct in the first place.
It seems to me that it is folly for a moral realist to ignore his/her own moral intuitions or the moral intuitions of others. Moral realism is about believing that there are objective moral truths. But a person with 100% confidence that he/she knows what those truths are and is unwilling to reconsider them is not just a moral realist, he/she is also a fanatic.
But on your second paragraph: I don’t think I actually disagree with you about what actually exists.
Here are some things that I’m sure you’ll agree exist (or at least can exist):
preferences and esthetics (as you mentioned)
tacitly agreed on patterns of behaviour, or overt codes, that reduce conflict
game theoretic strategies that encourage others to cooperate, and commitment to them either innately or by choice
Now, the term “morality”, and related terms like “right” or “wrong”, could be used to refer to things that don’t exist, or they could be used to refer to things that do exist, like maybe some or all of the the things in that list or other things that are like them and also exist.
Now, let’s consider someone who thinks, “I’m intuitively appalled by this idea, as is everyone else, but I’m going to do it anyway, because that’s the morally obligatory thing to do even though most people don’t think so” and analyze that in terms of things that actually exist.
Some things that actually exist that would be in favour of this point of view are:
an aesthetic preference for a conceptually simple system combined with a willingness to bite really large bullets
a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the greater good
a willingness to sacrifice others for the greater good
a perhaps unconscious tendency to show loyalty for one’s tribe (EA) by sticking to tribal beliefs (Utilitarianism) in the face of reasons to the contrary
Perhaps you could construct a case for that position out of these or other reasons in a way that does not add up to “fanatic adherent of insane moral system” but that’s what it’s looking like to me.
If 100% of humanity are intuitively appalled with an idea, but some of them go ahead and do it anyway, that’s just insanity. If the people going ahead with it think that they need to do it because that’s the morally obligatory thing to do, then they’re fanatic adherents of an insane moral system.
It seems to me that you think that utilitarianism is just abstractly The Right Thing to Do, independently of practical problems, any intuitions to the contrary including your own, and all that. So, why do you think that?
Really? I think almost everyone has things that are intuitively appalling, but they do anyway. Walking by a scruffy, hungry-looking beggar? Drinking alcohol? there’s something that your intuition and your actions disagree on.
Personally, I’m not a utilitarian because I don’t think ANYTHING is the Right Thing to Do—it’s all preferences and private esthetics. But really, if you are a moral realist, you shouldn’t claim that other human’s moral intuitions are binding, you should Do The Right Thing regardless of any disagreement or reprisals. (note: you’re still allowed to not know the Right Thing, but even then you should have some justification other than “feels icky” for whatever you do choose to do).
But, even a moral realist should not have 100% confidence that he/she is correct with respect to what is objectively right to do. The fact that 100% of humanity is morally appalled with an action should at a minimum raise a red flag that the action may not be morally correct.
Similarly, “feeling icky” about something can be a moral intuition that is in disagreement with the course of action dictated by one’s reasoned moral position. it seems to me that “feeling icky” about something is a good reason for a moral realist to reexamine the line of reasoning that led him/her to believe that course of action was morally correct in the first place.
It seems to me that it is folly for a moral realist to ignore his/her own moral intuitions or the moral intuitions of others. Moral realism is about believing that there are objective moral truths. But a person with 100% confidence that he/she knows what those truths are and is unwilling to reconsider them is not just a moral realist, he/she is also a fanatic.
OK, I guess I was equivocating on intuition.
But on your second paragraph: I don’t think I actually disagree with you about what actually exists.
Here are some things that I’m sure you’ll agree exist (or at least can exist):
preferences and esthetics (as you mentioned)
tacitly agreed on patterns of behaviour, or overt codes, that reduce conflict
game theoretic strategies that encourage others to cooperate, and commitment to them either innately or by choice
Now, the term “morality”, and related terms like “right” or “wrong”, could be used to refer to things that don’t exist, or they could be used to refer to things that do exist, like maybe some or all of the the things in that list or other things that are like them and also exist.
Now, let’s consider someone who thinks, “I’m intuitively appalled by this idea, as is everyone else, but I’m going to do it anyway, because that’s the morally obligatory thing to do even though most people don’t think so” and analyze that in terms of things that actually exist.
Some things that actually exist that would be in favour of this point of view are:
an aesthetic preference for a conceptually simple system combined with a willingness to bite really large bullets
a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the greater good
a willingness to sacrifice others for the greater good
a perhaps unconscious tendency to show loyalty for one’s tribe (EA) by sticking to tribal beliefs (Utilitarianism) in the face of reasons to the contrary
Perhaps you could construct a case for that position out of these or other reasons in a way that does not add up to “fanatic adherent of insane moral system” but that’s what it’s looking like to me.