I hate that quote; it’s completely backwards and depends entirely on selection effect.
Many ideas accepted as self-evident, both true and false, are first violently opposed. Many ideas violently opposed are first ridiculed. However, most ridiculed ideas stay ridiculed, and most violently opposed ideas stay violently opposed.
Similarly: If you win, before that they probably fought you. If they fight you, before that they probably laughed at you. And if they laugh at you, before that they probably ignored you.
True, but the quote itself doesn’t contradict that. (Though, certainly, a lot of people do misuse quotes like that in the wrong direction to claim that (e.g.) they are right because they are being ridiculed, or that they will win because they are being ignored or laughed at.)
The only reason I have ever heard anyone say such a thing is when their ideas are not accepted as being self-evident (they haven’t won) and they want to suggest that the opposition they are currently facing is simply one step in a natural progression towards success.
I completely agree. (Good counterquote from Carl Sagan: “The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.”) I was only pointing out that the quote itself isn’t completely backwards, while agreeing that people mainly invoke it to make backwards claims like that.
...but even so, even if it’s not taken to also be suggesting the obviously-fallacious converse, it may still not be correct. Not all truth is “violently opposed” before becoming accepted; not all truth is ridiculed before being taken seriously; and some truths never are accepted as self-evident (not that all truths should be; hindsight bias, etc.). So yeah, any way you look at it it’s a pretty dumb quote. (It’s a good thing Schopenhauer probably never said it anyway!)
Arthur Schopenhauer
I hate that quote; it’s completely backwards and depends entirely on selection effect.
Many ideas accepted as self-evident, both true and false, are first violently opposed. Many ideas violently opposed are first ridiculed. However, most ridiculed ideas stay ridiculed, and most violently opposed ideas stay violently opposed.
Similarly: If you win, before that they probably fought you. If they fight you, before that they probably laughed at you. And if they laugh at you, before that they probably ignored you.
True, but the quote itself doesn’t contradict that. (Though, certainly, a lot of people do misuse quotes like that in the wrong direction to claim that (e.g.) they are right because they are being ridiculed, or that they will win because they are being ignored or laughed at.)
The only reason I have ever heard anyone say such a thing is when their ideas are not accepted as being self-evident (they haven’t won) and they want to suggest that the opposition they are currently facing is simply one step in a natural progression towards success.
I completely agree. (Good counterquote from Carl Sagan: “The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.”) I was only pointing out that the quote itself isn’t completely backwards, while agreeing that people mainly invoke it to make backwards claims like that.
...but even so, even if it’s not taken to also be suggesting the obviously-fallacious converse, it may still not be correct. Not all truth is “violently opposed” before becoming accepted; not all truth is ridiculed before being taken seriously; and some truths never are accepted as self-evident (not that all truths should be; hindsight bias, etc.). So yeah, any way you look at it it’s a pretty dumb quote. (It’s a good thing Schopenhauer probably never said it anyway!)
With the caveat that P(Truth|observation of one or more stages) < P(observation of one or more stages|Truth)